Loverro takes one last shot at Angelos and Baltimore

[Tony-OH]

14 hours ago, TonySoprano said:

Interesting how attendance had dropped by almost 1.25 million (33.9%) from 1997 to 2003, two years before the Nats arrived.  400K fans disappeared in the first year after Ripken retired.   Attendance dropped 23% last year.  Was that because of the Nats or the worst record since the team moved to Baltimore 65 years ago?

Lazy article, as others have noted.

As you've eluded to here, there are lots of reasons for the attendance drop in Camden Yards. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, backwardsk said:

I read this somewhere else, so I won’t take credit: “Loverro has a face for radio and a voice for the silent movies.”

 

Easy now. I'd rather people focus on the content of the article at hand then personal opinions of the writer's attributes. That's not what we're about.

[weams]

1 hour ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Is that the Lord Baltimore?

Actually my wife and I dined at the Alex Brown two weekends ago. 

It is. But folks who like to take shots at Baltimore never get to experience the urban culture. 

[wildbillhiccup]

Maybe he should write an article about how the Nationals are a team with about as much personality as a wet piece of balsa wood. 

[theocean]

2 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Significant, stripped down payroll reductions doesn’t mean necessarily the team is being sold...which would be OK if it was too.   It is mainly consistent with an Astroball style of rebuild...2011 payroll there was 85 mil, then to 54 million in 2012 and 41 million in 2013 then 57 million in 2014 and 87 million in 2015, 109 million in 2016 and 193 million in 2017.

It appears that the early in the rebuild,  very drastic payroll cuts better enabled the rapid spending escalation when it was strategically indicated. 

I agree. Loria added payroll before he sold the Marlins. I think the O's rebuild is being done because the Angelos sons think it is the best way forward.

The one concerning thing is that Camden Yards lease is up soon - and Governor Hogan's letter to the Commissioner revealed that negotiations couldn't move forward until the MASN dispute is finalized. I think that's a signal that the Orioles' financial future might not be entirely secure.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, tntoriole said:

Significant, stripped down payroll reductions doesn’t mean necessarily the team is being sold...which would be OK if it was too.   It is mainly consistent with an Astroball style of rebuild...2011 payroll there was 85 mil, then to 54 million in 2012 and 41 million in 2013 then 57 million in 2014 and 87 million in 2015, 109 million in 2016 and 193 million in 2017.

It appears that the early in the rebuild,  very drastic payroll cuts better enabled the rapid spending escalation when it was strategically indicated.

So many people don’t seem to understand this.    They seem to think saved money on payroll just disappears into the owners’ pockets and can’t be used for any other baseball-related purpose or at any other time.   And, they seem to think that whatever a team’s highest payroll is, the team can just do that every year forever.    Maybe the Yankees and Dodgers can, but most teams can’t.  They have to time their payroll expenditures strategically.   

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

So many people don’t seem to understand this.    They seem to think saved money on payroll just disappears into the owners’ pockets and can’t be used for any other baseball-related purpose or at any other time.   And, they seem to think that whatever a team’s highest payroll is, the team can just do that every year forever.    Maybe the Yankees and Dodgers can, but most teams can’t.  They have to time their payroll expenditures strategically.   

The Astro's were the  most profitable team in baseball during their rebuilding years. So yeah the money does go in the owners pocket when you have a tiny payroll. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, atomic said:

The Astro's were the  most profitable team in baseball during their rebuilding years. So yeah the money does go in the owners pocket when you have a tiny payroll. 

Just because the team made a profit doesn’t mean that money went to the owners.    For all we know, it’s being used now to fund the Astros’ current $193 mm payroll.    

[atomic]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Just because the team made a profit doesn’t mean that money went to the owners.    For all we know, it’s being used now to fund the Astros’ current $193 mm payroll.    

Evidently they had a $66 million dollar profit last year.  10th best in baseball. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Evidently they had a $66 million dollar profit last year.  10th best in baseball. 

The Astros payroll figures cited by tntoriole in the post I quoted don’t seem to line up with what BB-ref and Forbes say.    Therefore I’m not going to comment further on their specific financial situation.    My main point remains: funds not spent in the early years of a rebuild can be spent on payroll later and have more impact.    

[atomic]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The Astros payroll figures cited by tntoriole in the post I quoted don’t seem to line up with what BB-ref and Forbes say.    Therefore I’m not going to comment further on their specific financial situation.    My main point remains: funds not spent in the early years of a rebuild can be spent on payroll later and have more impact.    

Or to buy a private island. 

[weams]

1 minute ago, atomic said:

Or to buy a private island. 

Islands are poor investments over the next 20 year cycle. 

[Chavez Ravine]

1 hour ago, weams said:

Islands are poor investments over the next 20 year cycle. 

The slightly inland and very urban Little Haiti is suddenly looking attractive to Miami Beachers.

[FanSince88]

The Vidalin situation is definitely weird and worrisome.  But nobody's talking, and until we have some sort of testimony about what really went down there, it's all speculation.  Could be as banal as Vidalin got homesick, or could be something much more serious.  Without an explanation, though, it's natural for people to jump to the worst conclusion.  And unless there is some sort of explanation, speculation is going to run wild.  

[fansince1988]

On 7/17/2019 at 10:37 AM, theocean said:

I've posted this a lot - and I usually get someone who flippantly responds with a picture of a full Minute Maid Park during the playoffs. But, I'll do it again anyway:

I'm a millennial. Grew up during the fourteen losing seasons. I learned to read, graduated high school, learned to drive, moved out on my own, had a few jobs, graduated college all before the Orioles had a winning season. They were awful. But for some reason Jeff Conine and Luis Matos and Daniel Cabrera turned me into a diehard Orioles fan. I'll never forgive them for cursing this evil upon me.

I truly know like five dudes my age who actually know, understand, and follow Orioles baseball on a daily basis. That's it. Five dudes who are diehard baseball fans. Sure, I know a ton of people who "like" baseball - but they couldn't tell you the difference between a four seam and a two seam fastball. Couldn't name you another player on another team outside the obvious ones. They don't know basic rules. Believe me, I unfortunately know they don't because I've played on the same softball team with them.

A big reason is that everyone my age grew up when the Orioles played like absolutely butt every year and the Ravens had Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and company bashing people's skulls in and winning the Super Bowl. 

Those same people who don't know basic baseball rules could tell you all about why the Ravens should attack the A-gap with their running game against a certain team. They grew up watching a lot of football and are lifelong, diehard football fans for life.

A lot of people my age all went to games a lot from 2012-2016 because the O's were good, Adam Jones was cool, and they wanted a place outside to drink. But, now? They don't care. It's just me and the five dudes I know who care about Hanser Alberto breaking up a perfect game. That's it.

My point is - when you tank or unintentionally tank for long period of time, you lose a generation of young fans. Yeah, winning brings in new fans - but having a butt product on the field kills that core foundation of fans that is needed to fill a stadium. 

Those same people who grew up during fourteen losing seasons are all having kids now. How are those kids ever going to care about baseball if their parents don't care and the Orioles of their youth are also butt.

We can try and explain low attendance as much as we want - but the O's have pretty much been butt for a long time. I really caution against scorched-earth, tanking rebuilds because they really do permanent damage to the health of the fanbase.

 

Good points here. You can't keep losing year after year after year. Eventually apathy sets in an people just don't care anymore. I watched nearly 90 percent of the games either on TV or at the ballpark during the 14 year losing streak. I don't have it in me to sit through another stretch like that.