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Mount Sportsmore

NJOriolesFan

By NJOriolesFan
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square634 Perennial All-Star

square634

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Ray Lewis has to be on there if it is a Mt. Sportsmore of Baltimore. I think the argument should be more of Brooks vs. Palmer. Sure, Palmer and Brooks were players on a bunch of World Series teams and they were great. But when it comes to what they actually meant to sports in Baltimore as a whole, I don't think it is as much as Lewis, who was the franchise player and brought us a Super Bowl after football came back to Baltimore. Because of the extenuating circumstances of putting Baltimore back on the map as a football town, I give the nod to Ray. I also agree that there should be balance between football and baseball, and having Unitas and Lewis is a testament to both eras of Baltimore football.

Granted I am young, so my opinions are probably clouded by that view.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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That's a great way of putting it. Even though Palmer was an unquestionably great player, the common fan (i.e. not people who spend a significant portion of their lives obsessing over the technicalities of baseball but the average Baltimore resident who roots for the local teams out of civic pride) never seemed to identify with him like they do with some players. I get the impression that he came across as aloof and a little too "Hollywood" for Baltimore and its blue collar ethos. He still does. I think if you were going to build a huge monumental statue, you'd need to consider who the top four are in the hearts of the local masses rather than who the best actual players were.

Yeah, but just as long as we don't have 4 whiteys on Baltimore's Mount Sportsmore ;)

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NJOriolesFan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

NJOriolesFan

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IMO, he was at the wrong place at the wrong time.

He payed out quite a large settlement and was found guilty of a misdemeanor of obstructing justice to be just an innocent bystander who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

He didn't do it. However, Pacman Jones, didn't necessarily do any shooting. The guys he hung with did the real crime. Pacman is evil but Ray Lewis is an innocent bystander? I know I'l get flamed for this but it had to be said.

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rolliefingers All-Star

rolliefingers

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That's a great way of putting it. Even though Palmer was an unquestionably great player, the common fan (i.e. not people who spend a significant portion of their lives obsessing over the technicalities of baseball but the average Baltimore resident who roots for the local teams out of civic pride) never seemed to identify with him like they do with some players. I get the impression that he came across as aloof and a little too "Hollywood" for Baltimore and its blue collar ethos. He still does. I think if you were going to build a huge monumental statue, you'd need to consider who the top four are in the hearts of the local masses rather than who the best actual players were.

I totally agree. And for that reason, Ray beats Palmer. It's close, but you also should have it even between football and baseball, and also, although I usually hate to do this, you have to take race into the equation. It'd be pretty uncomfortable for a majority-black city to have all white dudes.

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Dr. FLK Hangout Grand Counsel

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Who do you remove from Detroit?

I think Cobb, Sanders and Louis have to stay. I wanted to represent hockey in this, as much as possible. I agree about Kaline but in some cases 4 isn't enough.

You want to remove one of the first HOF inductees for Al Kaline? I'm not sure people really appreciate just how good Cobb was. It would be crazy to take him off the list before Joe Louis, wouldn't it?

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square634 Perennial All-Star

square634

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But what will people be saying when Ray Lewis is retired for 10 years? To have relevence years after you stop playing is what really makes somebody's career remarkable. Lewis will have his place in history and in Baltimore lore but it is hard to compare the love you have for somebody who is current to someone many have never seen play.

They will say that he helped bring football back to Baltimore, which transcends his accomplishments on the field (even though they were also great). If Palmer or Brooks had played on the early Orioles teams in the 1950s, then it would be a comparable situation.

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NJOriolesFan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

NJOriolesFan

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Yeah, but just as long as we don't have 4 whiteys on Baltimore's Mount Sportsmore ;)

New York is largely african-american and hispanic. A real melting pot, if ever there was one.

However, would anyone argue that New York's Mt. Sportsmore shouldn't include Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle? It is an all-white all-baseball monument but nonetheless it would probably be the people's cherce (Brooklyneese for choice).

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Dr. FLK Hangout Grand Counsel

Dr. FLK

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He payed out quite a large settlement and was found guilty of a misdemeanor of obstructing justice to be just an innocent bystander who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

He didn't do it. However, Pacman Jones, didn't necessarily do any shooting. The guys he hung with did the real crime. Pacman is evil but Ray Lewis is an innocent bystander? I know I'l get flamed for this but it had to be said.

To compare Ray Lewis to Pacman is borderline absurd. Ray was in the "wrong place at the wrong time" ONE TIME. Pacman finds himself in those situations seemingly on a nightly basis. Ray has completely cleaned up his image, whether you believe he's a saint or not. He admitted to running with the wrong crowd, and he has said that he totally changed who he hangs out with. He absolutely messed up. And, the "large" settlement isn't so large to him. I'm sure he would gladly give that money to make the trial go away. If anything, Ray Lewis is the "anti-Pacman". He made a mistake, learned from it, is outspoken about his life changes, and he's a (seemingly) better person now. Pacman is a bum.

(All of that Ray Lewis love came from a Redskin fan too...)

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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New York is largely african-american and hispanic. A real melting pot, if ever there was one.

However, would anyone argue that New York's Mt. Sportsmore shouldn't include Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle? It is an all-white all-baseball monument but nonetheless it would probably be the people's cherce (Brooklyneese for choice).

I was being sarcastic ;)

BTW, it sucks that the NY monument would have 4 Yankees. Gross. Gotta mix it up.

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NJOriolesFan Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

NJOriolesFan

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You want to remove one of the first HOF inductees for Al Kaline? I'm not sure people really appreciate just how good Cobb was. It would be crazy to take him off the list before Joe Louis, wouldn't it?

Who ever said anything about removing Cobb?

I said Cobb, Sanders and Louis should all stay on there. Heck, Joe Louis was a boxer so his events took place in many venues. He never really had a home field. He didn't play hockey or basketball, yet the arena is still named the Joe Louis Arena. Kaline would have to be on there instead of Orr.

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Dr. FLK Hangout Grand Counsel

Dr. FLK

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Who ever said anything about removing Cobb?

I said Cobb, Sanders and Louis should all stay on there. Heck, Joe Louis was a boxer so his events took place in many venues. He never really had a home field. He didn't play hockey or basketball, yet the arena is still named the Joe Louis Arena. Kaline would have to be on there instead of Orr.

Turns out I can't read...my mistake.:D

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rolliefingers All-Star

rolliefingers

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New York is largely african-american and hispanic. A real melting pot, if ever there was one.

However, would anyone argue that New York's Mt. Sportsmore shouldn't include Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle? It is an all-white all-baseball monument but nonetheless it would probably be the people's cherce (Brooklyneese for choice).

That's true, but Baltimore is different. Ray and Palmer are very close, IMO. Palmer did more individually and collectively, but the question isn't necessarily "best", but rather "most beloved". Ray is by far more beloved than Palmer.

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