Mount Sportsmore

[Chollie Eckman]

Why does the debate have to be Palmer OR Ray Lewis? They should both be on Mount Baltisportsmore, along with Unitas and Cal Ripken.

Brooks Robinson? Overrated. Great fielder, ok hitter. A championship caliber player, and a contributor to the glory year teams, sure, but not one of the all time greats.

Like I said before, some people have no concept of history. None.

[howie14]

Who ever said anything about removing Cobb?

I said Cobb, Sanders and Louis should all stay on there. Heck, Joe Louis was a boxer so his events took place in many venues. He never really had a home field. He didn't play hockey or basketball, yet the arena is still named the Joe Louis Arena. Kaline would have to be on there instead of Orr [Howe].

Although I'm one of the ones who brought up Kaline, you can't have a Detroit Mt. Sportsmore without Gordie Howe. That's one of the few towns on the list with real hockey tradition and he played for a century and a half.

I withdraw my earlier objection.

Someone further up the thread also mentioned that DC would vote for John Thompson. If we're talking the entire metro area, I doubt it. As I stated earlier, most Terp fans hated Thompson. And there were always a lot more Terp fans down there than Georgetown fans.

In DC proper would be a different story.

[howie14]

Why does the debate have to be Palmer OR Ray Lewis? They should both be on Mount Baltisportsmore, along with Unitas and Cal Ripken.

Brooks Robinson? Overrated. Great fielder, ok hitter. A championship caliber player, and a contributor to the glory year teams, sure, but not one of the all time greats.

Funny, but a huge number of fans might say the same thing about Cal Ripken. Brooks and Cal both strike the right balance between stats and a player-fan relationship. They were beloved, not just respected. Eddie Murray was on his way to that prior to 1988.

Palmer, for one, has never had that. People think he was great, but no one went around having their kids named after him.

[Why Not?]

Why does the debate have to be Palmer OR Ray Lewis? They should both be on Mount Baltisportsmore, along with Unitas and Cal Ripken.

Brooks Robinson? Overrated. Great fielder, ok hitter. A championship caliber player, and a contributor to the glory year teams, sure, but not one of the all time greats.

Cal's career OPS+ was 112, Brooks' was 104. Don't downplay Brooks' offensive contribution because of the low-offense era in which he played. If Cal's on there, so is Brooks.

[osfan83]

Like I said before, some people have no concept of history. None.

Right.

For you young guys, in the 1950's and 60's Baltimore was THEE sports town, and Johnny U was the biggest thing in the city. The O's arrived in '54 but the city fell in love with the team when Brooks arrived. Brooks and Johnny U owned this town in the '50's, 60's and early '70's. They are no brainers.

Brooks and Cal are my favorite players of all time, and Cal desrves to be there, but most of Cal's carrer the team was in decline, so dispite his popularity, I don't think he was as big as Johnny U and Brooks were in their hayday in the city.

Palmer is 4th but clearly ahead of Lewis. If Lewis is a major part of the Ravens organization for another 15-20 years, as a head coach winning a Super Bowl, or as a beloved announcer, then maybe he will surpass Palmer.

[Sonny76]

Some consideration should be given to Gino Marchetti.

[NJOriolesFan]

Why does the debate have to be Palmer OR Ray Lewis? They should both be on Mount Baltisportsmore, along with Unitas and Cal Ripken.

Brooks Robinson? Overrated. Great fielder, ok hitter. A championship caliber player, and a contributor to the glory year teams, sure, but not one of the all time greats.

Why do you feel that way about Brooksie? You do realize that offensive numbers were much lower in Brooksie's day than in today's game. He is certainly a much better hitter than you give him credit for.

[Sports Guy]

Yea, there is no debate about Unitas, Cal and Brooks.

The 4th is, without a doubt, Ray or Palmer...Palmer gets the edge do to longevity, titles and awards.

BTW, great discussion NJO...I really liked the one on Mike and Mike that they had(last year?).

[DrungoHazewood]

Why do you feel that way about Brooksie? You do realize that offensive numbers were much lower in Brooksie's day than in today's game. He is certainly a much better hitter than you give him credit for.

Brooks was an ok offensive player, but certainly nothing special. As someone has already stated his career OPS+ was 104. Which is probably lower than BJ Surhoff or Sam Horn or something.

And that's mostly irrelevant. Brooks isn't in the Hall for his bat. People didn't name their children after him because of his bat. He's one of the two or three most revered people in Baltimore history because he was a spectacular fielder, a great human being, a key cog on championship teams, and the face of the Baltimore Orioles from the mid-50s until Cal.

[Big Al]

You are right, I guess I was just think Bullets and D.C. came to mind. I don't think Gus Johnson beats out Palmer or Lewis.

So, would you go with Wes Unseld or Joe Gibbs or John Thompson or Morgan Wootten or other.

I'd take Wes Unseld over Earl Monroe. Also, I'd take Art Monk, Sonny Jurgenson, or Darrell Green over Riggins.

[DrungoHazewood]

I find it difficult to believe you'd have a monument like this to all of Baltimore sports history and completely ignore everything pre-1950.

The National League Orioles featured any number of Hall of Famers, including John McGraw, Willie Keeler, and Wilbert Robinson. McGraw is a true giant of the game. I guess the downside all three of those guys have is that they spent the latter parts of their lives being associated with New York.

And it's hard to stomach completely ignoring the greatest minor league team of all time, and easily Baltimore's most dominant sport team, the Orioles of the teens and early 20s. They won seven consecutive league championships, and had Hall of Famers on the roster. The man who put those teams together and stood almost alone in fighting off the majors and their attempt to subjugate the minors to servitude was Jack Dunn, and he probably belongs on this monument as much as anyone after Cal, Brooks, and Unitas.

Of course if this thing was really built I'm sure it would follow the lead of all good ESPN polls and completely ignore everything that happened in the era before TV, and mostly ignore everything that happened before 1980.

[mweb]

I think you've gotta have Kirby Puckett in there for Minnesota, Santana is GREAT, but he hasnt brought them to the level that Kirby did....

Yeah, Santana may replace Kirby at some point, but right now, has to be Kirby.

In St. Louis, I think Faulk should be on there instead of Pujols for similiar reasons, too early for Albert, Faulk is probably one of the top 10 rb's ever, and he lead the Rams to a SB.

I would go with Ray for BMore, He ranks higher as a LB'er than Palmer does as a SP imo.

[osfan83]

I find it difficult to believe you'd have a monument like this to all of Baltimore sports history and completely ignore everything pre-1950.

The National League Orioles featured any number of Hall of Famers, including John McGraw, Willie Keeler, and Wilbert Robinson. McGraw is a true giant of the game. I guess the downside all three of those guys have is that they spent the latter parts of their lives being associated with New York.

And it's hard to stomach completely ignoring the greatest minor league team of all time, and easily Baltimore's most dominant sport team, the Orioles of the teens and early 20s. They won seven consecutive league championships, and had Hall of Famers on the roster. The man who put those teams together and stood almost alone in fighting off the majors and their attempt to subjugate the minors to servitude was Jack Dunn, and he probably belongs on this monument as much as anyone after Cal, Brooks, and Unitas.

Of course if this thing was really built I'm sure it would follow the lead of all good ESPN polls and completely ignore everything that happened in the era before TV, and mostly ignore everything that happened before 1980.

But did that O's minor league team of the teens and early 20's captivate the city the way the Colts and Birds did in the 50's and 60's?

[weams]

For Baltimore, IMO, it has to be Palmer.

His time with this team is crazy when you consider his playing and broadcasting time.

Plus, he was great.

Every World Series that we have been in includes Jim Palmer.

Chicago MUST HAVE DITKA!!!!

[mweb]

New York is largely african-american and hispanic. A real melting pot, if ever there was one.

However, would anyone argue that New York's Mt. Sportsmore shouldn't include Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle? It is an all-white all-baseball monument but nonetheless it would probably be the people's cherce (Brooklyneese for choice).

I would argue that Taylor could be on there over Joe D, but it's close. I think Taylor was a better football player than Joe D was a baseball player, but DiMaggio gets points over LT for off the field matters.

And saying the Giants aren't in the NY discussion is like saying the Redskins aren't part of DC. You can see NYC from the Meadowlands, it's right across the river, just because it was easier for them to build right outside the city doesn't mean they shouldn't be considered imo.