Mount Sportsmore

[Chollie Eckman]

Well no, I don't remember because I wasn't living. However, NJO's said how much a player is beloved is not the issue here, it's greatness. I think Brooks was the 3rd greatest between those 3 O's. Where would you rank him?

Edit: Actually, Brooks may have been better than Palmer, it's close imo.

In the whole history of the game when Brooks retired there was maybe 1 (one) other third baseman that could be mentioned in the same breath as Brooks and that's Eddie Mathews. Mathews played other positions (1b and OF). Brooks played his whole career at third and redefined it defensively. No one made bare handed catch and throws back then.

[NJOriolesFan]

I find it difficult to believe you'd have a monument like this to all of Baltimore sports history and completely ignore everything pre-1950.

The National League Orioles featured any number of Hall of Famers, including John McGraw, Willie Keeler, and Wilbert Robinson. McGraw is a true giant of the game. I guess the downside all three of those guys have is that they spent the latter parts of their lives being associated with New York.

And it's hard to stomach completely ignoring the greatest minor league team of all time, and easily Baltimore's most dominant sport team, the Orioles of the teens and early 20s. They won seven consecutive league championships, and had Hall of Famers on the roster. The man who put those teams together and stood almost alone in fighting off the majors and their attempt to subjugate the minors to servitude was Jack Dunn, and he probably belongs on this monument as much as anyone after Cal, Brooks, and Unitas.

Of course if this thing was really built I'm sure it would follow the lead of all good ESPN polls and completely ignore everything that happened in the era before TV, and mostly ignore everything that happened before 1980.

While I don't have as extensive knowledge of Baltimore Baseball beyond the 1954-2007 crew, I wanted to represent sports so that it wouldn't just be a nesting ground for seagull crap and it would be something with historical significance.

[NJOriolesFan]

Every World Series that we have been in includes Jim Palmer.

Chicago MUST HAVE DITKA!!!!

I agree but who are you kicking off?

[NJOriolesFan]

Not saying that he makes the top 4, but Juan Dixon deserves mention. And I'd put him way ahead of Michael Phelps at this point.

I personally would go with Ray Lewis, but it's close enough that neither he nor Palmer would upset me. It's ridiculous to discount Lewis because of his run-ins with the law, yet include Ty Cobb in Detroit, who ran into the stands and brutally beat a cripple and was notorious for violent racist acts, as well. But of course, Ty Cobb belongs on Detroit's Mount Sportsmore. And Pete Rose belongs on Cincinnati's.

Lewis is the face of the Baltimore Ravens more than Palmer is or was ever the face of the Baltimore Orioles. Palmer was never Mr. Oriole like Brooks, and by the end of his career was overshadowed in popularity by Eddie and Cal. I love him as an announcer, but plenty don't.

I do agree that it's risky to include anyone whose career is not yet finished, though. Although Palmer didn't exactly bow out when he was still at his peak like Jim Brown.

New York: No football, basketball, or hockey player stands out. Joe Namath tops the list, but his career other than Super Bowl III is not overwhelming. However, there are many baseball players that could be argued. Robinson, Mays, McGraw, Mathewson, Jeter, Ford come to mind, along with the four already mentioned.

It is definitely difficult to take any of those four off, but the only one that I think is an absolute lock is Ruth. So there's one. I think DiMaggio also stays. Gehrig became significantly more popular as his career was ending and, ultimately, in death. Meanwhile, the Giants were the Yankees of early Major League Baseball, and no one represents those dominant Giants teams like John McGraw. So I'd replace Gehrig with McGraw. And finally, the contributions of Jackie Robinson are truly historic. There's an argument to be made that he belongs on a non-Presidential Mount Rushmore for American history in general. Add to that the fact that he chose to retire rather than play with a team other than the Brooklyn Dodgers (the Dodgers were moving and a trade of Robinson to the Phillies was being considered), and I think he overtakes Mantle.

Actually JAckie Robinson was going to be traded to the hated Giants.

[mweb]

What city do you guys think has the best foursome?

I would think it's between, NYC, Boston, and SF.

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio/Taylor.

Russell, Bird, Williams, Orr, with Brady and Clemens being great alternatives.

Bonds, Mays, Montana, Rice.

According to Bill James, NYC has the 1st, 6th, 13th, and 14th best baseball players ever. And LT is usually considered the best OLB ever, and arguably the best defensive player ever.

Boston has the 7th best baseball player according to James, one of the top 3 centers ever who is the biggest winner in NBA history, one of the top 3 hockey players ever, and either a top 15 NBA player, a top 10 QB who has won 3 SB's or a top 3 SP ever. I think Clemens should take Bird's place.

SF has the 3rd best player in Mays, and 16th in Bonds(in 2000), so he'd now make that 2 of the top 4 players ever. They also have the best WR ever and arguably the best player in NFL history. Then top it off with Montana, who is arguably the best QB ever, I'd probably have him around 4 or 5 though.

Tough call, will have to think about this one.

[mweb]

In the whole history of the game when Brooks retired there was maybe 1 (one) other third baseman that could be mentioned in the same breath as Brooks and that's Eddie Mathews. Mathews played other positions (1b and OF). Brooks played his whole career at third and redefined it defensively. No one made bare handed catch and throws back then.

Here Bill James top 3rd baseman:

Schmidt

Brett

Mathews

Boggs

Baker

Santo

Brooks

Molitor

Hack

[mweb]

Not sure if many people realize this, but in the modern era of baseball, only Whitey Ford, Sandy Koufax and Pedro have an ERA lower than Palmer's 2.86. Throw in 3 Cy Youngs, 268 wins, 8 20 win seasons, multi gold gloves, the fact that he was on every O's World Series team and I think "Cakes" is a no brainer.

He great ERA has a lot to do with the era he pitched in. He's 50th in ERA+.

[safoster]

Washington DC - Walter Johnson, Sammy Baugh, Earl Monroe, John Riggins-I also considered Joe Gibbs and John Thompson and Jason Simontacchi (just kidding)

I don't think so...

You're not even considering Sonny Jurgensen or Joe Theismann?

DC has to be - Walter Johnson, Sonny Jergensen, Wes Unseld, Joe Gibbs.

[NJOriolesFan]

What city do you guys think has the best foursome?

I would think it's between, NYC, Boston, and SF.

Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio/Taylor.

Russell, Bird, Williams, Orr, with Brady and Clemens being great alternatives.

Bonds, Mays, Montana, Rice.

According to Bill James, NYC has the 1st, 6th, 13th, and 14th best baseball players ever. And LT is usually considered the best OLB ever, and arguably the best defensive player ever.

Boston has the 7th best baseball player according to James, one of the top 3 centers ever who is the biggest winner in NBA history, one of the top 3 hockey players ever, and either a top 15 NBA player, a top 10 QB who has won 3 SB's or a top 3 SP ever. I think Clemens should take Bird's place.

SF has the 3rd best player in Mays, and 16th in Bonds(in 2000), so he'd now make that 2 of the top 4 players ever. They also have the best WR ever and arguably the best player in NFL history. Then top it off with Montana, who is arguably the best QB ever, I'd probably have him around 4 or 5 though.

Tough call, will have to think about this one.

EVERYONE in Boston would beg to differ. Larry Legend is a god in Boston.

Personally, I like the San Francisco group.

The Boston group might be slightly better because of the multi-sport representation, besides are there any two more storied/nostalgic venues in a single city than Fenway Park and Boston Garden. They have to be so loved considering they are/were both dumps.

[sangell2007]

Actually JAckie Robinson was going to be traded to the hated Giants.

Oh, yeah, you're right...dunno why I had Phillies in my head. But still, they had announced their move first, so he retired rather than play somewhere else.

[howie14]

Drungo,

Your comment about Old NL Orioles is well taken; however, John McGraw is more identified for his later career at the Polo Grounds and Uncle Robbie belongs to Brooklyn. Keeler is most definitely ours, but I'm guessing that the combination of being outside of the "modern era" and being part of a team that disbanded make his inclusion as likely as Gus Johnson's.

Maybe we can sneak McGraw and Robinson in based on that legend about their assistance in the development of duckpin bowling in Baltimore. They are the Abner Doubledays of duckpins, if you know what I mean.

[PeteU]

Well, if you are talking about mere birthright, I'd say Babe Ruth. Balmer boy all the way.

But most of America would not make the connection. They probably thought Ruth grew up in the Bronx all his life.

[NJOriolesFan]

I don't think so...

You're not even considering Sonny Jurgensen or Joe Theismann?

DC has to be - Walter Johnson, Sonny Jergensen, Wes Unseld, Joe Gibbs.

Fair enough. I'm looking for debate and discussion. However, Sammy Baugh is like one of the top 20 football players of all-time, much better than Jurgenson. Even though it was a different game back then, Baugh's accomplishments can't be ignored. I was ignorant to the esteem that Unseld was held in. I knew he was great but I thought his coaching did him in from the fans' point of view. I guess Gibbs would have to go for Baugh, though. I don't know a ton about hockey. Any Caps merit consideration?

[sangell2007]

EVERYONE in Boston would beg to differ. Larry Legend is a god in Boston.

Personally, I like the San Francisco group.

The Boston group might be slightly better because of the multi-sport representation, besides are there any two more storied/nostalgic venues in a single city than Fenway Park and Boston Garden. They have to be so loved considering they are/were both dumps.

Yankee Stadium and MSG, definitely. And since the Boston Garden is no longer around, you can throw Ebbetts Field and the Polo Grounds in there, as well.

Also maybe Wrigley and Chicago Stadium (or Soldier Field)?

[safoster]

Fair enough. I'm looking for debate and discussion. However, Sammy Baugh is like one of the top 20 football players of all-time, much better than Jurgenson. Even though it was a different game back then, Baugh's accomplishments can't be ignored. I was ignorant to the esteem that Unseld was held in. I knew he was great but I thought his coaching did him in from the fans' point of view. I guess Gibbs would have to go for Baugh, though. I don't know a ton about hockey. Any Caps merit consideration?

Jurgensen is still broadcasting for the Redskins, though. He's a legend. The only Caps that would merit consideration would be Rod Langway and Dale Hunter.