Mount Sportsmore

[DrungoHazewood]

But did that O's minor league team of the teens and early 20's captivate the city the way the Colts and Birds did in the 50's and 60's?

It was the only team in town, and lots of folks thought (rightly) that they were the match of a lot of major league teams. In the '21 Junior World Series against Louisville the fans got so irate at an umpire's call that they swarmed the field, started a riot, and caused the game to be forfeited. I'd say they took the team pretty seriously.

Later on, in the '44 Little World Series the O's drew 52,833 for one of the games, more than any World Series game that year. Baltimore loved the Orioles, no matter what classificiation they were in.

[Big Al]

I'd love to but pick your spot. Who are you removing and who are you adding?

Not sure who to remove, but Joe Willy has to get some consideration. Some people are aruging that Ray Lewis deserves to be on ours because he helped put Baltimore back on the football map. Namath put an entire league on the football map.

[sangell2007]

Not saying that he makes the top 4, but Juan Dixon deserves mention. And I'd put him way ahead of Michael Phelps at this point.

I personally would go with Ray Lewis, but it's close enough that neither he nor Palmer would upset me. It's ridiculous to discount Lewis because of his run-ins with the law, yet include Ty Cobb in Detroit, who ran into the stands and brutally beat a cripple and was notorious for violent racist acts, as well. But of course, Ty Cobb belongs on Detroit's Mount Sportsmore. And Pete Rose belongs on Cincinnati's.

Lewis is the face of the Baltimore Ravens more than Palmer is or was ever the face of the Baltimore Orioles. Palmer was never Mr. Oriole like Brooks, and by the end of his career was overshadowed in popularity by Eddie and Cal. I love him as an announcer, but plenty don't.

I do agree that it's risky to include anyone whose career is not yet finished, though. Although Palmer didn't exactly bow out when he was still at his peak like Jim Brown.

New York: No football, basketball, or hockey player stands out. Joe Namath tops the list, but his career other than Super Bowl III is not overwhelming. However, there are many baseball players that could be argued. Robinson, Mays, McGraw, Mathewson, Jeter, Ford come to mind, along with the four already mentioned.

It is definitely difficult to take any of those four off, but the only one that I think is an absolute lock is Ruth. So there's one. I think DiMaggio also stays. Gehrig became significantly more popular as his career was ending and, ultimately, in death. Meanwhile, the Giants were the Yankees of early Major League Baseball, and no one represents those dominant Giants teams like John McGraw. So I'd replace Gehrig with McGraw. And finally, the contributions of Jackie Robinson are truly historic. There's an argument to be made that he belongs on a non-Presidential Mount Rushmore for American history in general. Add to that the fact that he chose to retire rather than play with a team other than the Brooklyn Dodgers (the Dodgers were moving and a trade of Robinson to the Phillies was being considered), and I think he overtakes Mantle.

[mweb]

I was actually going to mention Michael Phelps also but for the same reasons you mentioned, I did not.

Well if you're going to have guys like Pujols, Wade, and James, I don't think Phelps should be kept out due to age. He is really further along in his career than any of those guys considering how young swimmers are. But I'd still put Ray over him mostly because we're talking about swimming.

[mweb]

I was going to put Bonds in San Francisco but I whimped out and opted for Bill Walsh but I can be swayed.

Well one of the greatest 3 baseball players ever should be on Mt. Sportsmore for the city he played 15 years and grew up in. Could get more into this, but really, what more needs to be said?

[BMann]

I've been a Ravens season ticket holder since they arrived from Cleveland, but I'm not sure Ray belongs on Mt. Sportsmore. In addition to the obstruction of justice charge, Ray was also accused of assaulting a woman in a bar fight the year before (1999). He seems to have cleaned up his act, but, having been around him at quite a few team functions, he's still not the nicest guy, IMO. I agree with the earlier poster than we should delay the construction of the fourth face until Ray retires, and we can give a final evaluation of The Football Player and The Man.

Palmer's aloof, to be sure, but much more pleasant in person than Ray. None are anywhere near the approachable guy that Brooksie is, though. You can just tell that Brooks is a genuinely nice guy; I'm not convinced Cal's pristine image isn't an act, at least in part. He seems so cool and calculated all the time.

Still, I'd go with Johnny U, Brooks, Cal, and Palmer right now. But Ray could bump Palmer if he gets the Ravens another title (and keeps his nose clean) before he hangs up his cleats.

And how come no one's mentioned Bert Jones?!? He's at least in my Top Ten!

[mweb]

Why does the debate have to be Palmer OR Ray Lewis? They should both be on Mount Baltisportsmore, along with Unitas and Cal Ripken.

Brooks Robinson? Overrated. Great fielder, ok hitter. A championship caliber player, and a contributor to the glory year teams, sure, but not one of the all time greats.

Yeah, I actually think the debate should be Palmer vs Brooks vs Eddie. Eddie actually had the best career imo, so I'd probably go with him, however he was not with the O's his whole career like the other two, so it's a tough call. Could go with any of the 3, I'm not sure, I guess if we're considering who was most beloved, I'd go with Brooks, if we consider post career, maybe Palmer, who was best, go with Murray.

I also agree with Drungo that guys like McGraw should be considered.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah, I actually think the debate should be Palmer vs Brooks vs Eddie. Eddie actually had the best career imo, so I go with him.

You clearly don't remember the impact Brooks had in the 70s. Before Cal, everything that Cal now represents was Brooks.

[DrungoHazewood]

Not saying that he makes the top 4, but Juan Dixon deserves mention. And I'd put him way ahead of Michael Phelps at this point.

I think Juan Dixon ranks about even with Mike Boddicker, and somewhere below Mark Belanger.

[geschinger]

You clearly don't remember the impact Brooks had in the 70s. Before Cal, everything that Cal now represents was Brooks.

Out with the old, in with the new.

Honestly though, even though I'm not old enough to remember Brooks as a player I can't imagine Brooks not being at or near the top of any list like this.

[mweb]

You clearly don't remember the impact Brooks had in the 70s. Before Cal, everything that Cal now represents was Brooks.

Well no, I don't remember because I wasn't living. However, NJO's said how much a player is beloved is not the issue here, it's greatness. I think Brooks was the 3rd greatest between those 3 O's. Where would you rank him?

Edit: Actually, Brooks may have been better than Palmer, it's close imo.

[Lefty0315]

Well one of the greatest 3 baseball players ever should be on Mt. Sportsmore for the city he played 15 years and grew up in. Could get more into this, but really, what more needs to be said?

Like I said earlier, his head wouldn't fit on a mountain with three other guys although he does deserve a spot. Maybe he could on Mt. Everest by himself.

I also find it interesting that best pitcher of this generation and one the best all-time is not listed. Since Roger Clemens moved around so much I would put him Houston since he lived and played there.

[DrungoHazewood]

Well no, I don't remember because I wasn't living. However, NJO's said how much a player is beloved is not the issue here, it's greatness. I think Brooks was the 3rd greatest between those 3 O's. Where would you rank him?

Just as a baseball player, or some more subjective definition of greatness?

If you're talking about impact on the city of Baltimore, I don't see any way Brooks Robinson isn't in the top three. Until about 1990 if you said Baltimore Orioles the first name that came to anyone's mind was Brooks. When he went to the Hall it was an event equal to Cal today. He grew up with the franchise, he was a key member almost from day one. He was an Oriole for 23 years, he set a record for Gold Gloves, he won an MVP, he jumped into Andy Etchebarren's arms after the last out of the '66 Series, he was a national icon because of his defensive plays against the Reds.

IMO, Palmer and Eddie just don't come close.

And if you're just talking about pure on-field performance, well... good luck comparing that across sports.

[mweb]

Just as a baseball player, or some more subjective definition of greatness?

If you're talking about impact on the city of Baltimore, I don't see any way Brooks Robinson isn't in the top three. Until about 1990 if you said Baltimore Orioles the first name that came to anyone's mind was Brooks. When he went to the Hall it was an event equal to Cal today. He grew up with the franchise, he was a key member almost from day one. He was an Oriole for 23 years, he set a record for Gold Gloves, he won an MVP, he jumped into Andy Etchebarren's arms after the last out of the '66 Series, he was a national icon because of his defensive plays against the Reds.

IMO, Palmer and Eddie just don't come close.

And if you're just talking about pure on-field performance, well... good luck comparing that across sports.

I'm talking just as a baseball player. And again, NJO's said we're talking about greatness here, not who was most beloved or whatever. Now if that's factored in, sure, Brooks should get the nod over the other two.

[Big Al]

Not sure if many people realize this, but in the modern era of baseball, only Whitey Ford, Sandy Koufax and Pedro have an ERA lower than Palmer's 2.86. Throw in 3 Cy Youngs, 268 wins, 8 20 win seasons, multi gold gloves, the fact that he was on every O's World Series team and I think "Cakes" is a no brainer.