Owners submit new economic plan to union : UPDATED

[atomic]

"We own Camden Yards,” Hogan told ESPN. “We own M&T [Bank] Stadium for the Ravens. So I'm the largest sports landlord here in our region. We, the governors of all the states, whether they own the facilities or not, will be the determining factor as to whether or not they are allowed to play sports."

 

"It's very likely that, no matter what kind of safety protocols they put in place, that some players are going to be infected," Hogan said.

[MongoBoy]

Playing or not really doesn't affect the idea of putting food on the table.

[Tony-OH]

19 hours ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

This is an unprecedented situation, so I think the public will be willing to give a lot of slack to sports leagues that don't play. Ultimately I think it comes down to PR. Taking whether he is right or wrong completely out of the conversation - you're not going to win over the public with Blake Snell type comments.

Here's an undergrad thesis on exactly what you're talking about. I wouldn't take this as gospel, but the writer brings up points that you discuss. If you look at numbers from 1994 to 1995, there is a noticeable shift in baseball's popularity:

https://kb.osu.edu/bitstream/handle/1811/48847/1/The_Effect_of_Strikes_and_Lockouts_on_the_Strength_of_Professional_Sports_Leagues.pdf

Interesting piece. This pretty much summarizes it's conclusions for this conversation.

"Major League Baseball suffered the most from the 1994-1995 strike of the four work stoppages studied. League average attendance took 12 seasons to recover from the 1994- 1995 strike, and league average operating income took seven seasons to reach its previous levels of stability. Overall popularity of Major League Baseball has been in a steady decline since the beginning of the strike in 1994, and Major League Baseball has been reduced from the second favorite sport in America to third in fan polls. The reason for this dramatic result as compared to other work stoppages studied could be the rise in high-action sports in the early 1990’s. Baseball has long been viewed as a slow-paced, drawn out game meant for casual fan involvement with few thrilling moments per game. Fast-paced sports such as ice hockey, basketball, and extreme sports such as skateboarding, snowboarding, and surfing were gaining national exposure and popularity due to the constant excitement and high energy levels. The cancellation of the postseason and the World Series took away any potential interest for the casual fan that would usually start paying attention at that time. Established sports such as baseball were slowly losing market share to these new competitors, and when baseball didn’t have any output for nearly eight months fans left to go to other forms of entertainment in droves."

This illustrates my point that baseball can not afford another black eye. As places open up across America, it will be hard MLB to recover if a season is destroyed because they couldn't figure out how to best share the money to be made. Grant it, they can try the "safety of the fans, players, and personnel" angle, and that might work for some, but when places like Texas, Florida and Georgia are open wide and back to normal, it will be hard sell that they couldn't play baseball this summer. 

I literally would have to consider whether I would want to be involved with baseball if this occurs. 

[Tony-OH]

8 hours ago, weams said:

 

 

Quote

 

"The Post, however, has obtained a March 26 email from an MLB lawyer to top league officials that documents the substance of talks between two MLB officials and two MLBPA officials from earlier that morning. The email covers seven points, including that MLB explained to the union officials that MLB would need a second negotiation if games were not played in front of fans to determine pay and claims that union officials understood that concept.

Thus, the email seemingly offers evidence that the union was aware that further talks were potentially necessary."

 

"The staredown and absence of talks is based on neither side wanting to flinch on economics. Players Association executive director Tony Clark and powerful agent Scott Boras have been publicly strong in stating the matter of salary already has been determined for a 2020 restart and no further negotiations need be held."

 

 

This seems quite clear that the union is digging in their heels and will come off as the bad guy in this scenario. It is of no surprise that Clark and Boras are behind this. they are no friend to the fan or the game, but solely focused on greed.

[weams]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2892574-tom-glavine-players-will-look-bad-if-theres-no-mlb-season-even-if-justified?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

[Tony-OH]

35 minutes ago, atomic said:

"We own Camden Yards,” Hogan told ESPN. “We own M&T [Bank] Stadium for the Ravens. So I'm the largest sports landlord here in our region. We, the governors of all the states, whether they own the facilities or not, will be the determining factor as to whether or not they are allowed to play sports."

 

"It's very likely that, no matter what kind of safety protocols they put in place, that some players are going to be infected," Hogan said.

Quite simply just move the franchise down to Sarasota or potentially Frederick for this season. If there are no fans it doesn't really matter although the rainouts will be pretty high during the summer in Sarasota. 

Baseball can not allow these governors to affect whether they play or not. If a Governor shuts down the stadiums they own, just move those games to a place that will allow the games. 

Nashville has a great Double-A stadium and Tennessee is opening up. Move the games there for all I care but get them going and on TV. As much as I'd like to see fans be able to attend, I've come to the realization that there are people in this country that are going to do whatever they can to make sure that doesn't happen. 

 

[Tony-OH]

5 minutes ago, weams said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2892574-tom-glavine-players-will-look-bad-if-theres-no-mlb-season-even-if-justified?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

The players union need to come to the realization that a salary cap has to happen at some point. When MLB is offering a 50-50 split of revenue, it's a pretty good place to win the court of public opinion, especially when Glavine is correct, the players never come out looking good because of the money they make compared to the common fan.

[atomic]

36 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The players union need to come to the realization that a salary cap has to happen at some point. When MLB is offering a 50-50 split of revenue, it's a pretty good place to win the court of public opinion, especially when Glavine is correct, the players never come out looking good because of the money they make compared to the common fan.

The owners should just say they will pay 50 percent of pro-rated salaries.  The split of revenue sounds like a salary cap and I am thinking Manfred is using the pandemic to try and get things he wants in.  

At the end of the day baseball isn't that important. If they don't want to play that is their choice.  If they don't play I don't expect to see any big free agency signings this off-season. 

[Moose Milligan]

48 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

This illustrates my point that baseball can not afford another black eye. As places open up across America, it will be hard MLB to recover if a season is destroyed because they couldn't figure out how to best share the money to be made. Grant it, they can try the "safety of the fans, players, and personnel" angle, and that might work for some, but when places like Texas, Florida and Georgia are open wide and back to normal, it will be hard sell that they couldn't play baseball this summer. 

I literally would have to consider whether I would want to be involved with baseball if this occurs. 

I think I might speak for a lot of OHers here when I say..."c'mon, maaaaaaaaan."

I get it, I really do and I don't fault you for that.  The players are a spoiled bunch of jerks.  And they don't want to lift a finger for anything.  But you've got a lot of equity built up in the game.  To walk away, to let them spoil the fun and the joy you take in this, I dunno man...it would make me sad.

I kinda look at it like Angelos (and Dan Snyder).  For years I've told myself that it sucks to be an Orioles fan and a Redskins fan.  The two teams I hold dear and have spent countless hours of time with are just mismanaged and poorly run by the worst owners in their respective sports.  What are the chances of that?  Not to mention the amount of money I've spent on gear...but you can't put a price on time.

I've just told myself that I can outlast them.  I can outlast Angelos, for sure.  Snyder will be harder, but I believe I can.  

Tony, you were a fan of baseball and involved in the game well before Blake Snell and Bryce Harper and all these other twatwaffles that are voicing their opinions and not wanting to play this year.  You'd still be a fan after their careers are over and there's....well, a new set of bratty, spoiled players that don't want to work.  But at least these ones will move on eventually.  

[Redskins Rick]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think I might speak for a lot of OHers here when I say..."c'mon, maaaaaaaaan."

I get it, I really do and I don't fault you for that.  The players are a spoiled bunch of jerks.  And they don't want to lift a finger for anything.  But you've got a lot of equity built up in the game.  To walk away, to let them spoil the fun and the joy you take in this, I dunno man...it would make me sad.

I kinda look at it like Angelos (and Dan Snyder).  For years I've told myself that it sucks to be an Orioles fan and a Redskins fan.  The two teams I hold dear and have spent countless hours of time with are just mismanaged and poorly run by the worst owners in their respective sports.  What are the chances of that?  Not to mention the amount of money I've spent on gear...but you can't put a price on time.

I've just told myself that I can outlast them.  I can outlast Angelos, for sure.  Snyder will be harder, but I believe I can.  

Tony, you were a fan of baseball and involved in the game well before Blake Snell and Bryce Harper and all these other twatwaffles that are voicing their opinions and not wanting to play this year.  You'd still be a fan after their careers are over and there's....well, a new set of bratty, spoiled players that don't want to work.  But at least these ones will move on eventually.  

Good post, well mostly. lol

IMO

There are two big differences between those two clowns.

Snyder loves and respects the Redskins traditions and wants to win in the worst way, and he travels with the team and attends all the games.

Even with Sir Peter was healthy his owner suite was usually dark for home games, could care less about any road games, and he was first and foremost a lawyer.

Im with Tony on this one, if the players cant find a way to fairly compromise, then screw MLB.

I have to give kudos to Snyder for the way, he handled the terrible Sean Taylor murder. He shut down the entire organization, and took them all to Florida, with full comps including spending money for everybody, not just the elite. He didnt have to, and he went above and beyond. Lets hope the Angelos are never tested like that.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

Good post, well mostly. lol

IMO

There are two big differences between those two clowns.

Snyder loves and respects the Redskins traditions and wants to win in the worst way, and he travels with the team and attends all the games.

Even with Sir Peter was healthy his owner suite was usually dark for home games, could care less about any road games, and he was first and foremost a lawyer.

Im with Tony on this one, if the players cant find a way to fairly compromise, then screw MLB.

I have to give kudos to Snyder for the way, he handled the terrible Sean Taylor murder. He shut down the entire organization, and took them all to Florida, with full comps including spending money for everybody, not just the elite. He didnt have to, and he went above and beyond. Lets hope the Angelos are never tested like that.

Well, there are some differences but that doesn't take away that they've both done a lot of damage to two franchises that were held in high regard for a long time.  To me, the fact that Snyder travels with the team vs. Angelos being a recluse doesn't mean much of anything, the results are the same.  

In regards to the Sean Taylor murder, Snyder is a bit of a jock sniffer.  He likes to be buddy-buddy with some of the players.  He was that way with RG3, but I don't have to tell you that.  He did handle the Sean Taylor situation about as well as anyone could but that doesn't make me think he's any less terrible.

[Redskins Rick]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, there are some differences but that doesn't take away that they've both done a lot of damage to two franchises that were held in high regard for a long time.  To me, the fact that Snyder travels with the team vs. Angelos being a recluse doesn't mean much of anything, the results are the same.  

In regards to the Sean Taylor murder, Snyder is a bit of a jock sniffer.  He likes to be buddy-buddy with some of the players.  He was that way with RG3, but I don't have to tell you that.  He did handle the Sean Taylor situation about as well as anyone could but that doesn't make me think he's any less terrible.

Good thoughts.

Angelos doesn't have the drive to want to field a winner. At least that is my perception.  He didnt want to play in the international market, and over pays for some, and under pays for others, and micromanages his people he hired. Thats my take on Angelos, I dont care if he is aloof. But, show a strong desired to win.

He over spent for Belle, yet wanted Mussina to come in and pitch for half of what he was worth. Peter ran Davey out of town after 2 ALCS visits. Incredible. Lets not even mention Jon Miller, the best damn announcer in the business.

Something Snyder has been trying to not do. Sadly, it left Bruce Allen to run around and rack up the wrong decisions.

Its been way too long for a championship team from either of them. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Quite simply just move the franchise down to Sarasota or potentially Frederick for this season. If there are no fans it doesn't really matter although the rainouts will be pretty high during the summer in Sarasota. 

Baseball can not allow these governors to affect whether they play or not. If a Governor shuts down the stadiums they own, just move those games to a place that will allow the games. 

Nashville has a great Double-A stadium and Tennessee is opening up. Move the games there for all I care but get them going and on TV. As much as I'd like to see fans be able to attend, I've come to the realization that there are people in this country that are going to do whatever they can to make sure that doesn't happen. 

 

That'll scare everyone who was worried about the "Nashville Orioles" rumors when the OPACY lease expires, but yeah the Orioles should play elsewhere this season if there is MLB and the state won't open up OPACY. Also the city of Baltimore just banned all public gatherings through August this afternoon. 

I'll take a bizzarro baseball season over no season at all. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Good thoughts.

Angelos doesn't have the drive to want to field a winner. At least that is my perception.  He didnt want to play in the international market, and over pays for some, and under pays for others, and micromanages his people he hired. Thats my take on Angelos, I dont care if he is aloof. But, show a strong desired to win.

He over spent for Belle, yet wanted Mussina to come in and pitch for half of what he was worth. Peter ran Davey out of town after 2 ALCS visits. Incredible. Lets not even mention Jon Miller, the best damn announcer in the business.

Something Snyder has been trying to not do. Sadly, it left Bruce Allen to run around and rack up the wrong decisions.

Its been way too long for a championship team from either of them. 

Not to hijack this thread further...

Angelos did at one time have the drive to want to field a winner.  As you noted, he picked up Belle.  He spent on other FAs early in his tenure, but the Belle thing made him gun shy.  Both of these guys wanted to be the smartest guy in the room when it came to making trades and signing free agents.  They both made very poor decisions on hiring general managers and front office people and then proceeded to do what they wanted anyway.  

In regards to Davey, that sucked...but that team was getting long in the tooth, I've often thought that Davey getting fired was a blessing in disguise for him.  I don't think he could have won if he stayed.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think I might speak for a lot of OHers here when I say..."c'mon, maaaaaaaaan."

I get it, I really do and I don't fault you for that.  The players are a spoiled bunch of jerks.  And they don't want to lift a finger for anything.  But you've got a lot of equity built up in the game.  To walk away, to let them spoil the fun and the joy you take in this, I dunno man...it would make me sad.

I kinda look at it like Angelos (and Dan Snyder).  For years I've told myself that it sucks to be an Orioles fan and a Redskins fan.  The two teams I hold dear and have spent countless hours of time with are just mismanaged and poorly run by the worst owners in their respective sports.  What are the chances of that?  Not to mention the amount of money I've spent on gear...but you can't put a price on time.

I've just told myself that I can outlast them.  I can outlast Angelos, for sure.  Snyder will be harder, but I believe I can.  

Tony, you were a fan of baseball and involved in the game well before Blake Snell and Bryce Harper and all these other twatwaffles that are voicing their opinions and not wanting to play this year.  You'd still be a fan after their careers are over and there's....well, a new set of bratty, spoiled players that don't want to work.  But at least these ones will move on eventually.  

This time though they will actively decide to take baseball away from people when it's something that could help so many.

I just don't know. As much as I love baseball, I'm questioning a lot of things right now and trying to put things in the right priorities.

No worries though, I've already had someone ask me to name my price for this place so it will still be here regardless of my future decisions.