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Bad News on the Spoone Front: Surgery for Slap Tear - out until mid-2009 likely

Lucky Jim

By Lucky Jim
in Minors

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J.D. Hangout Veteran Council

J.D.

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Posted
From the Prospect Tracker:

Were they just wrong? Lying? It's infuriating!

As someone pointed out earlier, slap tears are really difficult to diagnose correctly. Especially if it's a slight tear, like Spoone's is. I have fraying ligaments in my knees, and it took three different MRIs to finally identify them. And frays in ligaments are much easier to find than frays in the labrum.

Obviously, a medical staff dealing with professional athletes should be better than an Air Force orthopedist. But what I'm saying is that, because of the nature of these injuries, they tend to be difficult to find and diagnose.

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byrdz Hangout Veteran Council

byrdz

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But do you have anything to back up your premise that this type of thing occurs more often to our young pitchers and prospects any more often than other organizations?

One indication may be that the Orioles pitching is some of the worst in baseball despite hoarding it and making it their mantra for many years?

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byrdz Hangout Veteran Council

byrdz

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This has what to do with the conjecture that the medical staff for the O's is subpar?

My response is to whether or not injuries happen to pitchers more in the O's organization than others and it appears that this is the case, at least to the ones that matter. The ML team has suffered greatly because of it and as a result is one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball, consistently, and this all from a team that claims that developing young pitching is it's focus.

Whether or not it's conditioning, instruction or which players they draft I don't know. Part of me thinks that it is the players they target. If we had gotten Townsend he would just be another on the list.

But I think peoples natural tendancy is to point the finger at the constant over the years.

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J.D. Hangout Veteran Council

J.D.

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My response is to whether or not injuries happen to pitchers more in the O's organization than others and it appears that this is the case, at least to the ones that matter. The ML team has suffered greatly because of it and as a result is one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball, consistently, and this all from a team that claims that developing young pitching is it's focus.

Whether or not it's conditioning, instruction or which players they draft I don't know. Part of me thinks that it is the players they target. If we had gotten Townsend he would just be another on the list.

But I think peoples natural tendancy is to point the finger at the constant over the years.

Honestly, I think a good look around some other teams' farm systems will give you a good idea that the Orioles' pitching prospects suffer injuries about as often as other teams. That just kind of comes with the territory drafting pitching prospects.

Yes, losing three pitchers to a slap-tear in the labrum is odd. But I think that's a lot more unfortunate luck than it is a trend. If they all had to get TJ surgery, it wouldn't be strange at all.

I will say that the organization has had a history of drafting pitchers that throw in a way that puts a lot of strain on their arm. We've tended, in the past especially, to go after power pitchers while looking less at the fluidity of their delivery and their ability to control their pitches, with the thinking of "You can't teach velocity, but you can teach control." The problem has been that the arm strain has caused injuries, and for some reason, the organization has a hard time really hammering that "control" point home.

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J.D. Hangout Veteran Council

J.D.

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Just stating my opinion. He has a 5% chance of returning to his old form.

If i'm wrong great.

A couple of years ago, you'd be 100% right. They've come a long way on those surgeries. I don't know what the success rate is now, but I know it's not as widely considered to be a "career killer" like it was before.

It will be interesting to see how Spoone, Albers, and Patton recover from their slap tears, however.

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Rolotomassie AA

Rolotomassie

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Help me recall and fill out this list of top pitching prospects derailed or at least delayed by significant arm injuries in the orioles system: (I'm just going by my poor memory, so correct me if I'm wrong)

Labrums: Spoone, Hale, Stahl, Smith, Loewen, Rakers, Rice, Finch

Patton, Ainsworth, and Luis Rivera (although their injuries probably first happened while with other organizations)

Elbows/TJ surgeries - Ray, Bedard, Hale (in addition to shoulder?), Loewen, Riley, Parrish, Hoey

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Flosman Major Leaguer

Flosman

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Very insightful!

Andrews isn't on OUR medical staff!

Yes it is insightful. He is the best in the business and he is the one that we consult on most cases. I think there is a better argument to be made against the coaching staff than the medical staff. The medical staff gets to treat guys that are hurt already, not prevent guess from getting hurt. I think a valid question is why do we have alot of guys getting hurt (even not knowing if it is more than normal) and guys consistantly showing up with bad mechanics. I know I have read alot about bad mechanics being a big factor in injuries. So I think saying, do we have a huge development problem is a legit concern, not that the Docs we use are incompetent and we can't afford to do MRIs. Which both have been suggested in this very thread.

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Flosman Major Leaguer

Flosman

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Yes it is insightful. He is the best in the business and he is the one that we consult on most cases. I think there is a better argument to be made against the coaching staff than the medical staff. The medical staff gets to treat guys that are hurt already, not prevent guess from getting hurt. I think a valid question is why do we have alot of guys getting hurt (even not knowing if it is more than normal) and guys consistantly showing up with bad mechanics. I know I have read alot about bad mechanics being a big factor in injuries. So I think saying, do we have a huge development problem is a legit concern, not that the Docs we use are incompetent and we can't afford to do MRIs. Which both have been suggested in this very thread.

I want to reinforce what I said with what DT said ust this week. He is going to the organizational meetings armed with video of guys in baseball that can actually maintain sound mechanics as compared to our guys. What do I take this to mean? DT and Kranitz think our development of pitchers stinks. Think about all of the guys we have had recently that can't repeat thier delievery in a way that someone like VAtech would say is sound. I am starting to think it is not a coincidence. Guys should not be learning thier mechanics in the Majors, I can buy learning how to sequence pitches but not how to thow the damn ball properly.

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byrdz Hangout Veteran Council

byrdz

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Keep hearing that surgeons have improved surgeries for labrum tears and that the days of these injuries being the end of a pitchers career isn't necessarily the case anymore.

Not trying to be difficult but can someone cite a pitcher that has succesfully come back from this injury with the new procedures. Considering a bunch of our pitchers have this injury, I would like to be convinced that this has changed, but have not heard of one.

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