The Future Of Baseball

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

In my experience, my kids have ended up committing to soccer by the time they were 10.  But it wasn't because, or not completely because, they were super focused on being the best soccer players.  It was a combination of things, including being on a team of friends.  And they wanted to focus on what they're good at.  So when there's a sport where they can play with their buddies and they're good it makes it fun, they really don't have much incentive to go play something else.

They're also among the smallest kids in their classes and on their teams, so that makes football or basketball a challenge.

Also, juggling multiple sports today can be borderline insane.  A lot of sports have both spring and fall seasons.  Indoor soccer and basketball and wrestling overlap.  I've coached kids who played baseball and soccer at the same time, and there are a bunch of times where they had to pick which game or which practice to go to.  They were at a game or a practice six days a week.  I have no idea when they'd get their homework done.  And at least here where I Iive select soccer teams are a year-long commitment, where you're expected to play spring and fall seasons along with futsal in the winter.

I recall one year coaching in basketball and our season ran so long before a playoff game one kid was talking to me about his baseball tryouts coming up. Our season ran too long and by the end you could tell there was a lack of focus. 

I know some kids who only play one sport because that is all they like. I would never force my kids to play something they don’t want to but I would also support them playing multiple sports.  

I know it can be a real mess with kids trying to play spring/fall- soccer/baseball/softball at the same time. One year in softball I had a parent tell me right before the playoffs in spring how their daughter had upcoming soccer tournament or something at the last minute. I think it worked out where they made the game but it was a scramble.  

[Yossarian]

3 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I recall one year coaching in basketball and our season ran so long before a playoff game one kid was talking to me about his baseball tryouts coming up. Our season ran too long and by the end you could tell there was a lack of focus. 

I know some kids who only play one sport because that is all they like. I would never force my kids to play something they don’t want to but I would also support them playing multiple sports.  

I know it can be a real mess with kids trying to play spring/fall- soccer/baseball/softball at the same time. One year in softball I had a parent tell me right before the playoffs in spring how their daughter had upcoming soccer tournament or something at the last minute. I think it worked out where they made the game but it was a scramble.  

I can remember taking my kid(s) to a summer AAU basketball tournament game in the morning, then having him change in the car on the way to the baseball diamond for a game (where usually he pitched), and then changing back to the basketball clothes to play another basketball game.  Those were long days and the kids get burned out in a hurry  

I didn't play soccer or watch soccer growing up, so I had no emotional attachment to it.  My kids all played in soccer leagues, which was fine - I just enjoyed watching them play baseball/football/basketball more because those were sports that I played and knew something about.  I did think that playing soccer helped with their speed more.  I think a lot of kids - especially those that are marginal athletes - like soccer over other sports for a few reasons:

1 - It is a relatively easy sport to play, especially at the rec league level.

2 - it is a social thing for them (like has been mentioned, their friends all play so they play to be with them)

3 - a poor player is not as "exposed" as drastically as other sports.  Being a poor baseball hitter and/or fielder is really evident.  You are the only one in the batter's box when you are at bat.  You are the only one the ball is being hit to or thrown to in the field.  Your failures are evident to everyone watching.  In soccer, you can stick a poor player in a defensive position and if he isn't able to kick the ball away from someone, it is not as noticeable.  He can "hide" in the scrum.  I think kids like this anonymity and lack of exposure.  A good soccer player can really stand out, but a poor soccer player can hide a lot more than he/she can in other sports.

[Yossarian]

On 6/8/2020 at 10:39 AM, UpstateNYfan said:

The death of baseball has more to do with the number of sport choices youth has today. Forty years ago, there was basically two youth (male) organizations recognized at the national level, Little League and Pop Warner football. Some other sports began to expand, CYO basketball (male), youth soccer programs (maybe the first co-ed). Overtime, more expansion....volleyball, hockey, gymnastics, cheerleading teams, club basketball, girls' softball and more.As time went on, many of these sports were not seasonal, some lasting 9 months of the year.  Travel teams began. Nine year old's  (or parents) told to make decisions, chose a sport (two at most). Baseball had setbacks, mainly unplayable weather in most of the country half the year, kids families with summer vacations, so a limited season. Even high school sports became specialized off season eight programs, "unofficial" summer basketball teams ("not coached" by the HS coach..but he or she in stands). Today, three sport HS athletes are rare. Back in the day, kids would grab their gloves, say adios and disappear to the local park and do pick up games or some random variation of the game. In Rochester, Kodak had an organization called KPAA, part of it was a summer softball program...send in an application, they assigned you to a team....you'd grab a bus (and transfer) and go to some field in a 20 mile radius and play with strangers. You go to the same parks today and they are barren, no kids playing.  You watch youth baseball (non travel) practices and kids are not involved. You watch games of 6-7 with kids pitching that have trouble hitting the backstop...kids picking dandelions in the field. Baseball is a difficult game to coach, let alone the rules. You wonder why baseball is failing. Watch other, youth sports like hockey and watch their skill developing programs..skill not games. Likewise, with youth basketball programs. A lot of rambling here, but baseball interests will likely continue to decline.

There is some truth in this rambling.

There are a lot more (organized) things for kids to do than there were in my youth.  My gave up baseball and basketball after their freshman/sophomore years of high school (and they lasted a lot longer than most kids).  One problem with youth baseball is that the kids that are slower to develop physically give the sport up before they catch up with their peers physically.  The kids that are bigger and stronger at age 10, 11, 12 play the key positions and have the most success batting when compared to the smaller/weaker kids that develop slower.  So these big kids make the All Star Teams, then they play on travel ball teams (because coaches can't keep weak kids on travel ball teams - you have to win now).  So these kids that may be good athletes and have decent fundamentals lose interest because nobody gives them chance to develop.  All but the most determined quit playing by age 12.

My kids had moved on to things like ultimate frisbee, or smashball, or even dodgeball and such things to fulfill their competitive drive, run with their friends, throw things, etc.  They see no reason playing in the adult-dominated and structured format of the "major" sports.  They could just play, and play competitively, in the more fringe sports and not have to deal with the politics of the more mainstream sports.

[DrungoHazewood]

17 hours ago, Yossarian said:

One problem with youth baseball is that the kids that are slower to develop physically give the sport up before they catch up with their peers physically.  The kids that are bigger and stronger at age 10, 11, 12 play the key positions and have the most success batting when compared to the smaller/weaker kids that develop slower.  So these big kids make the All Star Teams, then they play on travel ball teams (because coaches can't keep weak kids on travel ball teams - you have to win now).  So these kids that may be good athletes and have decent fundamentals lose interest because nobody gives them chance to develop.  All but the most determined quit playing by age 12.

There's a lot to that.  My kids are small.  They're really good, they're fast, they're quick.  But middle schoolers who're 4' 4" and 65 pounds.  My oldest quit baseball at 9 or 10 in part because some of his teammates were almost as tall as Dad and hit the ball 100' into the outfield, and his bread-and-butter was pounding the ball in the ground towards third base and beating the throw to first.  That doesn't get you noticed or picked for All Star teams.  Nobody is waiting for four years for your growth spurt.  In soccer his speed and quickness had him progressing to Rec Plus and travel in a couple years.  Middle school is the abyss that kids fall into with sports, where the participation levels fall off pretty dramatically.  If you're good you go to select teams, if you're not quite at that level a lot of kids get tired of rec ball.  And if you're really not good there's only so long Mom and Dad can force you to play.

[DrungoHazewood]

17 hours ago, Yossarian said:

I can remember taking my kid(s) to a summer AAU basketball tournament game in the morning, then having him change in the car on the way to the baseball diamond for a game (where usually he pitched), and then changing back to the basketball clothes to play another basketball game.  Those were long days and the kids get burned out in a hurry  

I didn't play soccer or watch soccer growing up, so I had no emotional attachment to it.  My kids all played in soccer leagues, which was fine - I just enjoyed watching them play baseball/football/basketball more because those were sports that I played and knew something about.  I did think that playing soccer helped with their speed more.  I think a lot of kids - especially those that are marginal athletes - like soccer over other sports for a few reasons:

1 - It is a relatively easy sport to play, especially at the rec league level.

2 - it is a social thing for them (like has been mentioned, their friends all play so they play to be with them)

3 - a poor player is not as "exposed" as drastically as other sports.  Being a poor baseball hitter and/or fielder is really evident.  You are the only one in the batter's box when you are at bat.  You are the only one the ball is being hit to or thrown to in the field.  Your failures are evident to everyone watching.  In soccer, you can stick a poor player in a defensive position and if he isn't able to kick the ball away from someone, it is not as noticeable.  He can "hide" in the scrum.  I think kids like this anonymity and lack of exposure.  A good soccer player can really stand out, but a poor soccer player can hide a lot more than he/she can in other sports.

I'm a big soccer fan, but I agree with a lot of that.  The entry level of soccer is easier than baseball.  I've coached U6, U8, U10 rec league soccer teams and half the kids have no idea what they're doing.  So you try to set things up so you have a defender or two who're good, a center midfielder, and maybe a striker who have some skills and you try to hide everyone else on the wings.  Or up top.  You can hide someone at striker, they just don't score goals.  If you try to hide them on defense they just get beat by the good kid on the other team.  Over and over.  Goalies are different, they're often exposed and put in no-win situations.  Which is why 75% of any given soccer team would rather run in traffic than play goalie. There's obvious differentiation in the skill set of rec players, but if the coach is any good individuals don't get embarrassed every game.

But in U8 baseball?  There are kids who strike out every at bat, three or four times a game.  And they also have a .100 fielding percentage.  Every time they actively participate in the sport the parents go "Uuhh... ouch.  You'll get it next time Jimmy!"

[Yossarian]

6 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

There's a lot to that.  My kids are small.  They're really good, they're fast, they're quick.  But middle schoolers who're 4' 4" and 65 pounds.  My oldest quit baseball at 9 or 10 in part because some of his teammates were almost as tall as Dad and hit the ball 100' into the outfield, and his bread-and-butter was pounding the ball in the ground towards third base and beating the throw to first.  That doesn't get you noticed or picked for All Star teams.  Nobody is waiting for four years for your growth spurt.  In soccer his speed and quickness had him progressing to Rec Plus and travel in a couple years.  Middle school is the abyss that kids fall into with sports, where the participation levels fall off pretty dramatically.  If you're good you go to select teams, if you're not quite at that level a lot of kids get tired of rec ball.  And if you're really not good there's only so long Mom and Dad can force you to play.

I was like your kids.  I remember when I got my driver's license at age 16.  I was 5'4" and 120 lbs.  I have four older brothers and played sports with them and their friends growing up so I was used to playing with bigger stronger kids and wasn't intimidated by that.  I was small through Little League and Pony League baseball, but fortunately I grew up in a small town with a smaller pool of players.  Because of this, I did make the All Star Teams every year (I had decent enough skills to overcome my lack of size/strength ).  Had I played in a bigger league with a larger talent pool, I probably wouldn't have made those All Star teams.

It wasn't until my senior year in high school that I really caught up to my peers physically.  I had grown to 6'0" and 175.  I dropped football after ninth grade and basketball after 10th grade but continued with baseball.  By my senior year, I was finally able to drive the ball (3 home runs and a .385 average) and started 3B and 2B.  I even tried to walk on my college team but cut myself after a couple weeks of practice when I could see it was going to be a big time investment for not much reward.

I have never given up my love for baseball.  I would hate to see it go away.