Why Can't the Orioles Develop Starting Pitchers?

[wildbillhiccup]

First Jake Arrieta left and won a Cy Young and now Dylan Bundy seems like he might be  poised to do the same. I'm happy they've both had success, but why can't the Orioles solve the starting pitching riddle? I used to chalk part of it up to OPACY, but last year park ranked 15th (a far cry from Coor's Field) so that seems like a hollow excuse. And even the Rockies have had some success developing pitchers. What are we doing wrong?

[joelala]

We need to come up with a name for a curse. 
 

Bundy looks great but I expect him to settle into an ERA closer to 3.50. 
 

Certainly frustrating though. 

[Bubble Buddy]

Wow. I mean he's an early season wonder often, but this seems like more than that. Only given up 2 HR's and 3 BB's. I think he was trying to reinvent himself the last year or so once he could no longer be a power pitcher. Guess it's all come together. Happy for him. Disappointed for us. Even Gausman is throwing up some decent ones in SF (although I know he's subject to up and downs, although his FIP is always usually solid). 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

First Jake Arrieta left and won a Cy Young and now Dylan Bundy seems like he might be  poised to do the same.

That's positively wildcard-ian of you.  He hasn't even pitched 30 innings this year and you've handed him the Cy Young.

For me, I'm going to need another start or two before I'm sure he can hold off Alex Cobb and Tommy Milone.

[Bubble Buddy]

This article is very informative about his evolution. Without the velocity, he has to maintain the sharp quality of all 4 pitches plus command to maintain his current production. It's likely hard to keep that level of sharpness. But he also sounds like a guy that has learned a lot the past few years and adjusted to the stuff he now has vs. the stuff he used to have. 

 

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/dylan-bundys-reincarnation-gives-angels-much-needed-rotation-ace/

Edited August 12, 2020 by Bubble Buddy

[wildbillhiccup]

So it's a curse? That's what we're chalking it up too? Seriously, I hope Elias has taken a long hard look at why this part of the organization has failed over the last 20 years. Whatever pitching philosophy they're using needs to be thrown out the door. 

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

So it's a curse? That's what we're chalking it up too? Seriously, I hope Elias has taken a long hard look at why this part of the organization has failed over the last 20 years. Whatever pitching philosophy they're using needs to be thrown out the door. 

No, it's that not a lot has changed with Bundy but he's so far avoided allowing a homer every four innings.

I assume Elias was not going to keep any of the old organizational philosophies unless he had a really good reason to.

[esmd]

Holy Small Sample Size, Batman!  Let's see how he does over an entire 162 game season.

 

[wildbillhiccup]

10 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No, it's that not a lot has changed with Bundy but he's so far avoided allowing a homer every four innings.

I assume Elias was not going to keep any of the old organizational philosophies unless he had a really good reason to.

I feel like some of you are focusing on too much on Bundy. I wasn't advocating keeping Bundy, I was asking do pitcher inherently become better when they leave our organization? It's a distinct pattern that we've seen with SPs and RPs. We must be doing something wrong. 

[Redskins Rick]

25 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I feel like some of you are focusing on too much on Bundy. I wasn't advocating keeping Bundy, I was asking do pitcher inherently become better when they leave our organization? It's a distinct pattern that we've seen with SPs and RPs. We must be doing something wrong. 

Other teams have huge failures too, its just Oriole fans are in tune with the blue chip prospects, and it stings when they fail.

There are positives in this org over the years.

Look at Zach, he pretty much had one foot off the roster and clinging on for life support. Came up with a new pitch for him, that turned him into a dominant reliever from a washup bullpen guy.

I dont really blame the org for Jake. I think Jake was stubborn and like Ed Rod, it took getting traded away to shake them up, to the point, they decided maybe they should listen to somebody else help them.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Other teams have huge failures too, its just Oriole fans are in tune with the blue chip prospects, and it stings when they fail.

There are positives in this org over the years.

Look at Zach, he pretty much had one foot off the roster and clinging on for life support. Came up with a new pitch for him, that turned him into a dominant reliever from a washup bullpen guy.

I dont really blame the org for Jake. I think Jake was stubborn and like Ed Rod, it took getting traded away to shake them up, to the point, they decided maybe they should listen to somebody else help them.

 

 

That's not accurate.

The pitch is the only reason he made it to the majors in the first place.  What actually happened was a combination of injuries and throwing to strings to improve command.

[Lucky_13]

I actually am cautiously optimistic about the new regime's ability to develop pitchers.  Means is probably the most obvious case but many of the pitching prospects have been doing well in the minors and they seem to be willing to make windup/mechanical adjustments to help guys in the bullpen improve such as Castro, Scott so far. 

 

[Redskins Rick]

28 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's not accurate.

The pitch is the only reason he made it to the majors in the first place.  What actually happened was a combination of injuries and throwing to strings to improve command.

First 3 years on the big club as a starter. -1.1 / -.05 / -.4 WAR and a very struggling starter, and

Zach himself, said he knew if he was going to stick around, he had to figure it out, and then come ST

At age 26 and a new role as a Closer, his WAR blossoms and he saves 37 games.

mlb quote:

Quote

Since becoming a closer early in the 2014 season, Orioles southpaw Zach Britton has left his days as a struggling starter far behind. Although he might not have the national name recognition of an Aroldis Chapman or Craig Kimbrel, Britton has been as effective as any reliever over that time, ranking second in ERA (1.48), tied for fourth in saves (107) and in a virtual tie for first in save success rate (93 percent).

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

First 3 years on the big club as a starter. -1.1 / -.05 / -.4 WAR and a very struggling starter, and

Zach himself, said he knew if he was going to stick around, he had to figure it out, and then come ST

At age 26 and a new role as a Closer, his WAR blossoms and he saves 37 games.

mlb quote:

 

What does that have to do with your assertion that he came up with a new pitch?

He had shoulder injuries as a starter and uneven performance.  They moved him to the bullpen and worked with his command of the sinker...that he started throwing in 2007 after Calvin Maduro tried to teach him a cutter.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

What does that have to do with your assertion that he came up with a new pitch?

He had shoulder injuries as a starter and uneven performance.  They moved him to the bullpen and worked with his command of the sinker...that he started throwing in 2007 after Calvin Maduro tried to teach him a cutter.

ok, relied on a new pitch, or reverted back to an old pitch, with new grip, same outcome.

Bottom line, he went from a mediocre struggling starter that was worth less than a replacement player, to a donafid dominant closer that for a few years could be considered one of the best at that position.