Roch on the OF situation

[glenn__davis]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

A sneaky play would be to nontender Mancini. Not sure what he'd be due to make in arb but more than Nunez I would think. Of course, nontendering a guy who is trying to come back from cancer would not be a good look at all but he was due $4.7M this year. 

Right.  We've discussed before, I think you can a make rational, totally non-emotional argument that non-tendering Mancini is the correct move.  I don't think it's an argument I would agree with but I think it can be made.

From a human and PR standpoint though it would be an absolute disaster and something that they really shouldn't even consider.

[HowAboutThat]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why would you non tender Nunez and hand Santander a starting job?  

Nunez is a one-trick pony. And we have several one-trick ponies who are more versatile.

Santander is above average on both sides of the ball.

[HowAboutThat]

doubled comment

Edited September 15, 2020 by Philip

[Aristotelian]

14 minutes ago, Philip said:

Nunez is a one-trick pony. And we have several one-trick ponies who are more versatile.

Santander is above average on both sides of the ball.

Wouldn't that make them multiple-trick ponies? 

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, Philip said:

Nunez is a one-trick pony. And we have several one-trick ponies who are more versatile.

Santander is above average on both sides of the ball.

1). Nunez is a better offensive player than Santander.

2) Santander isn’t above average defensively.  He’s fine out there but let’s not act like he is a stud with a glove.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

1). Nunez is a better offensive player than Santander.

Is he?  They have pretty much the same career MLB OPS/OPS+.  Nunez is a few months older, and Santander had his development possibly/probably screwed up by being yanked out of A Ball as a Rule 5er.  Since Santander was called up last year he's hit better than Nunez.

I think I'd bet on Santander being a better hitter going forward.  And even as an average RFer he's going to be more valuable than Nunez as a pretty poor fielding 1B and DH.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Is he?  They have pretty much the same career MLB OPS/OPS+.  Nunez is a few months older, and Santander had his development possibly/probably screwed up by being yanked out of A Ball as a Rule 5er.  Since Santander was called up last year he's hit better than Nunez.

I think I'd bet on Santander being a better hitter going forward.  And even as an average RFer he's going to be more valuable than Nunez as a pretty poor fielding 1B and DH.

They are going to hit for roughly the same average but Nunez will take a walk far more than Santander.

I would give Nunez the edge because of OBP.  I don’t think slugging will be that much different over the course of a full season.

I don’t disagree that Santanders ability to be an adequate defender gives him the slight overall edge.

Where I disagree is the notion that Santander is handed a starting job and Nunez is DFa’ed.  That just isn’t logical imo.

If Santander was a GGer, that would be one thing but he’s not.  I do think one of them needs to go though.

[DrungoHazewood]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

They are going to hit for roughly the same average but Nunez will take a walk far more than Santander.

I would give Nunez the edge because of OBP.  I don’t think slugging will be that much different over the course of a full season.

I don’t disagree that Santanders ability to be an adequate defender gives him the slight overall edge.

Where I disagree is the notion that Santander is handed a starting job and Nunez is DFa’ed.  That just isn’t logical imo.

If Santander was a GGer, that would be one thing but he’s not.  I do think one of them needs to go though.

I wouldn't just drop Nunez, but I think Santander could be a three win player, maybe more if he hits 40 homers one year.  While Nunez' defensive shortcomings kind of limit him to two wins or so.  The difference between an average RF and a DH is something like 100 points of OPS.

I'd try to trade Nunez, but he's not going to bring back a ton.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I wouldn't just drop Nunez, but I think Santander could be a three win player, maybe more if he hits 40 homers one year.  While Nunez' defensive shortcomings kind of limit him to two wins or so.  The difference between an average RF and a DH is something like 100 points of OPS.

I'd try to trade Nunez, but he's not going to bring back a ton.

Yea, I could see a 1 win difference if Santander reaches his hypothetical ceiling.  
 

But, to me, when you say I’m handing a starting job to player X and cutting player y, you are saying player X is vastly superior player.

Thats just false in this case.

I would rather trade Santander because of I believe he has more value because of defense.  But if the values were roughly the same, Nunez is the one I would prefer to go because of defensive versatility.

Id also be more than fine with neither being here.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Wouldn't that make them multiple-trick ponies? 

I was afraid I would have to explain that, what I meant was that guys who are bat-only players are still better with the glove than Nunez, so he is the most expendable.

[HowAboutThat]

57 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

1). Nunez is a better offensive player than Santander.

2) Santander isn’t above average defensively.  He’s fine out there but let’s not act like he is a stud with a glove.

I didn’t say Santander was a stud. I said he was above average, and according to UZR, DRS, and OAA, in RF, he is. Santander is de facto a better all-around player, he’s younger, and it’s possible he’s still improving. No comparison.

And I don’t think he should be DFA-Ed. Of course we should try to trade him, but I don’t think you’ll find many teams wanting his profile.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Philip

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Nunez is a one-trick pony. And we have several one-trick ponies who are more versatile.

Santander is above average on both sides of the ball.

Nunez is tradable.  He is not someone to be non tendered IMO

[HowAboutThat]

Just now, wildcard said:

Nunez is tradable.  He is not someone to be non tendered IMO

(Sigh) if you can trade him, of course you trade him. You only DFA him if you can’t trade him. That’s not rocket science.
However, if you can’t trade him, do you keep him anyway?

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

(Sigh) if you can trade him, of course you trade him. You only DFA him if you can’t trade him. That’s not rocket science.
However, if you can’t trade him, do you keep him anyway?

If the NL is staying with the DH next year and Nunez profiles as a 30 homer guy in a full season, he should be tradable.

[HowAboutThat]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

If the NL is staying with the DH next year and Nunez profiles as a 30 homer guy in a full season, he should be tradable.

Well, the other question is more interesting. If we can’t trade him, do we keep him anyway? He’s a good hitter, but that’s all. There’s a lot of time between now and next April, but I’m expecting the team to have improved enough that- even without Davis-there will be a roster crunch, and tough decisions to be made.