Santander may odd man out in 2021 or 2022

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, joelala said:

Missed the throw, I was cooking, I’ll have to find it.  He’s certainly a very good defender and I love the way he plays but that style of play may be a detriment to his body; he has proven he cannot stay on the field. I think .260 is a more realistic expectation, but sure, if he can stay healthy he’s a good player worthy of playing time. But he can’t stay healthy, so it’s moot to me. 
 

 

His ability to stay on the field is a concern, but I think it’s premature to say he has “proven” he can’t stay on the field.   I’d say it in the converse: he hasn’t proven that he can stay on the field.    Yet.

[accinfo]

He is too good of both a talented hitter and fielder to write him off.  Yes he has had more than his share of injuries but this last one he took a fastball of his ribs and they broke.  I put that in the category of being unlucky more that being injury prone.  If your rib is broken it is difficult to play.  

[bpilktree]

49 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m sort of playing devil’s advocate.   But with more and more balls being hit in the air, the old assumptions about which positions are most important defensively could shift.   

I also think that you don’t need as much range as you used to to play a position because of shifts.  If a right hand hitter is up you have three guys usually on the left side of infield or lefty up you are over on right side with three infielders.    The shortstop doesn’t have to cover up the middle as much with these shifts so is closer to third base side.  It will also be intersting if the approach to hitting chances as it use to be go up the middle and it was a hit now it is an easy grounder to one of the shifted infielders playing behind second.

[sportsfan8703]

Hays is hurt more than Reimold. Mullins can’t hit RH. I love Mancini, but we don’t know if he’s coming back, and it’s his walk year. I think we’re going to struggle with OF depth, with Diaz getting AAA time, in 2021. 
 

CF - Mullins, Hays

LF - Mountcastle, Stewart

RF - Santander. 

[LookinUp]

On talent, I think the Os want Hays, Santander, Diaz in the OF, Mancini and Mountcastle at DH/1b, Mullins as 4th OF and Stewart off the bench. Until Kjerstad arrives.

add Rutschman and you’re waiting on Ps to arrive while figuring out ss, 3b and 2b. 

[joelala]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

His ability to stay on the field is a concern, but I think it’s premature to say he has “proven” he can’t stay on the field.   I’d say it in the converse: he hasn’t proven that he can stay on the field.    Yet.

That’s fair, I’ll accept that converse. Next season should tell us a lot. 

[DrungoHazewood]

13 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Mountcastle is .3 rWAR behind him in half the at bats. 

So you're saying this is going to be a '59 McCovey situation?

[DrungoHazewood]

10 hours ago, Frobby said:

His ability to stay on the field is a concern, but I think it’s premature to say he has “proven” he can’t stay on the field.   I’d say it in the converse: he hasn’t proven that he can stay on the field.    Yet.

I don't know if there's anything you can prove about staying healthy or injured unless you have a chronic problem that keeps coming back.  Paul Molitor's career is a good example.  Games he missed from his 2nd season on: 20, 51, 55, 2, 10, 149, 20, 57, 44, 8, 7, 59, 4, 4, 2, 0, 14, 1, 27, 36.  He was injured all the time in his 20s, then was as durable as just about anyone from 34-39.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't know if there's anything you can prove about staying healthy or injured unless you have a chronic problem that keeps coming back.  Paul Molitor's career is a good example.  Games he missed from his 2nd season on: 20, 51, 55, 2, 10, 149, 20, 57, 44, 8, 7, 59, 4, 4, 2, 0, 14, 1, 27, 36.  He was injured all the time in his 20s, then was as durable as just about anyone from 34-39.

Sure but that’s obviously an outlier.

Most athletes don’t frequently stay injured in their 20s and then, all of a sudden, become durable in their 30s.

[LookinUp]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure but that’s obviously an outlier.

Most athletes don’t frequently stay injured in their 20s and then, all of a sudden, become durable in their 30s.

Seems like this is an opinion as much as a fact, but I don’t know.

I *feel* like a lot of guys work through injury issues and eventually stabilize as relatively healthy. I also feel like many never get over the injuries.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Seems like this is an opinion as much as a fact, but I don’t know.

I *feel* like a lot of guys work through injury issues and eventually stabilize as relatively healthy. I also feel like many never get over the injuries.

I don’t have data in front of me but I think it’s fairly obvious.  Remember, I said athletes.  Their bodies are so essential to them and when they start to break down, it’s hard to turn that around and be good enough to compete at this level as you get older.  Your skills diminish as you get older as it is.

Baseball may be a little different because it’s not a physical sport but football and basketball are.  
 

But I would bet most guys who just keeping hurt over and over also don’t end up staying in the league either.  Their injuries take a lot out of them and they can’t perform at that professional level anymore.  Not to mention, the pain to play through starts to become too much.

 

[luismatos4prez]

Nunez is really the odd man out next year. What does an Arb1, no glove, slightly above average hitter fetch on the trade market? Maybe a Cadyn Grenier or even a Zac Lowther type

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t have data in front of me but I think it’s fairly obvious. 

You can say that about a lot of things that eventually turned out to be not so obvious.  Would be nice if there was a comprehensive injury database. Otherwise we're guessing.

[DrungoHazewood]

30 minutes ago, luismatos4prez said:

Nunez is really the odd man out next year. What does an Arb1, no glove, slightly above average hitter fetch on the trade market? Maybe a Cadyn Grenier or even a Zac Lowther type

In the space of a couple months in 2018 Nunez netted the Rangers and A's zilch.

[luismatos4prez]

13 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

In the space of a couple months in 2018 Nunez netted the Rangers and A's zilch.

At the time, he had hit poorly in his first cups of coffee.

He's put up a 106 OPS+ in 1000 PAs since then and is only 26. He has value.