Nunez DFA

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

If you had to pick between Mancini and Nunez, who would you take? I would take Mancini, even with some lingering questions about his health. He is worth the salary he is projected to make. To me, Mancini coming back to a role as a 1B/DH makes Nunez expendable. It is that simple. I am not going to pay Nunez to sit the bench next to Davis and have two holes on the roster. You cannot afford to do that and expect to make progress. 

If they re-signed Nunez and sat him on the bench, you would be bitching all year about the horrible waste of Money by Elias. This is still not going to change your mind, but I had to say it anyway. 

How much is Mancini going to make?

[Tony-OH]

I will say it seems strange that Nunez doesn't have some trade value vs a DFA. His avg exit velocity really fell off last year but his WOBA  has increased every year he's been with the Orioles to his career best .341 (MLB avg of .317) though his xWOBA fell to .301 (.321 MLB average) suggesting he was a little lucky last year.

His defensive value really fell off to the point that he's a DH, which of course puts a lot of pressure on his bat. With Mancini returning, and Stewart needing everyday at bats and an outfield that is getting crowded in a good way (Mountcastle, Stewart, Hays, Santander and Mullins and Diaz at some point perhaps), he's in a bit of a roster crunch. 

I'd like to think a guy who was on pace to hit 30+ home runs at 26 years old with a good solid barrel percentage (80 MLB percentile) would have more value, but with offensive numbers continuing to rise, my guess is if you bring no defensive value your bat needs to be special, and Nunez is a streaky hitter who can be special at times, but eventually ends up slightly better than average offensively. 

Do I think money is involved in this decision? Yeah, I think it would be naïve to say that his arbitration number wasn't a factor. Was it the only factor, no because as I pointed out, there's going to be a crunch for PAs next year between 1B, DH and corner outfield. 

As for Davis, it's quite clear that with COVID still lingering, the question on whether a full season will happen next year looms big on whether to finally cut bait on him. It's clear that Davis has no intention of doing the right thing and retiring, so he will continue to embarrass himself and any remaining legacy so he can cash some big checks in the future that he hasn't earned. It's certainly his right to do so. Also, with the CBA coming up, maybe the Orioles think they will save money from his albatross contract if the players strike?

It's clear he's only still on the roster because the Orioles are exploring all ways to try and get out of paying him.

Nunez was a decent stick, but his defensive woes really cut onto his value and at the end of the day, it seems Elias has decided he rather give those DH at bats to others.

 

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Nine pages on this.  I think I’ve read enough.   I hope Nunez latches on elsewhere and has a productive year.  

You say you've read enough of THIS but then you go and start the Chris-Davis-swing-change-can-of-worms thread that will be on its 35th page by the time spring training starts?

[Sports Guy]

3 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

If you had to pick between Mancini and Nunez, who would you take? I would take Mancini, even with some lingering questions about his health. He is worth the salary he is projected to make. To me, Mancini coming back to a role as a 1B/DH makes Nunez expendable. It is that simple. I am not going to pay Nunez to sit the bench next to Davis and have two holes on the roster. You cannot afford to do that and expect to make progress. 

If they re-signed Nunez and sat him on the bench, you would be bitching all year about the horrible waste of Money by Elias. This is still not going to change your mind, but I had to say it anyway. 

I don’t get the point of this post.

Nunez gets plenty of at bats no matter what you do with Mancini.

[Jammer7]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t get the point of this post.

Nunez gets plenty of at bats no matter what you do with Mancini.

No, no he doesn’t. And that is the point. For him to be productive, he needs to be in the lineup regularly with at around 400 at bats. He is not a guy that can sit for a week and grab a bat, get in the box and have good timing. He would be taking those at bats from young players we need to keep developing and Mancini. 

[Jammer7]

7 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

How much is Mancini going to make?

MLB Traderumors projects about $4.8 million. We’ll see what they agree to, but I seriously doubt it will be more than that. If I had to guess, I would think it will be just a bit lower where they settle. Who knows at this point?

[Sports Guy]

8 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

No, no he doesn’t. And that is the point. For him to be productive, he needs to be in the lineup regularly with at around 400 at bats. He is not a guy that can sit for a week and grab a bat, get in the box and have good timing. He would be taking those at bats from young players we need to keep developing and Mancini. 

I still don’t get what you are saying.

LF- Mountcastle

1st- Mancini

DH- Nunez

 

Everyone gets everyday at bats.

 

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Right, but Stewart and Mullins get fewer AB's with Hays and Santander starting.  Also, all 3 bats you have listed are RH.  I'm not arguing the point that Nunez offers some level of relatively cheap production.  He does.  It's just that what he currently offers doesn't hold a lot of value.   My only concern, voiced by Frobby, is that a player, at 26, and after 2 years, may have another level in him.  The Orioles obvious don't feel that way about Nunez.  If Nunez is what he is, I have no problem giving his AB's to Stewart and Mullins.  If he has no trade value at all, then I can live with releasing him and saving 1.5M, or the difference between him and someone making the minimum. 

I have zero desire to see Mullins get any amount of significant playing time and I have serious doubts the Os do either.  He has a spot on the team as your 4th/5th OFer type guy but he shouldn’t be anything more than that.

Stewart I can see but, the team is telling us they will platoon him at best and his injury history isn’t exactly on his side.

Not to mention, he does have an option remaining, so he could be in AAA. 
 

Stewart brings a better walk rate but not sure what he can provide in the field (which isn’t much at all) makes up for anything else.  Not like Nunez is way older or super expensive.

If Nunez was making 5+ million, it would be different.  But we are talking 2ish million here.  It’s nothing and his roster spot blocks nothing to begin the year.

Again, this is 100% money driven...not roster management driven.

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

It's not 100% money driven and how can we be arguing bout Stewart's lack of defensive value when we are comparing him to Nunez?     If Nunez was a better player they would keep him and pay the 2M.   How else do you explain them resigning Iglesias for 3.5M?    They see value there.    They have simply determined they can get similar value to Nunez for 1M or more less.    Yes, it is very much money related but certainly not 100%.   Overall Stewart and Nunez, based on Stewart's limited career, look to provide similar offensive value.   Stewart has the added bonus of being left handed and making a lot less money.   Nunez's platoon splits against LHP are ordinary for a RH hitter so a 2M platoon player doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the Orioles.    If Stewart is indeed platooned (his career OPS of .683 in 60 AB's and minor league splits (which another poster alluded to) don't make this a sure thing either.

Point #2.  Is there a team in baseball who will give us a warm body for Nunez got his production and relatively inexpensive salary?    What, if anything, we can get for Nunez will somewhat prove that this is not 100% money related.   If it was, another team would jump to get him, wouldn't they?

Stewart makes A LOT less money?  It will be like 1-1.5M.  That’s nothing in baseball money.  
 

And again, your argument is making assumptions of health and production.  The health argument is an awful assumption to make and the production assumption is borderline as well.

Iglesias provides you good defense and a decent bat at a position where that’s not easy to find.  3.5M, again, is no money.  No even worth mentioning that in the context you are.

The “another team would jump on him” argument is a bad one because he is basically limited to the DH and right now, we don’t know if the DH will be allowed in the NL.  So, the options are very limited.  The Orioles, however, do have space for him and their payroll is 100ishM less than it could be.  Other teams don’t have as much payroll flexibility.

Again, my hope would be that Nunez is struggling to see at bats by June.  There are other options I prefer.  But none of them are guarantees for several different reasons and having Nunez around, for no money, at his production was worthwhile.  The team is just being cheap.  To me, it’s that simple.  

[wildcard]

44 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

It's not 100% money driven and how can we be arguing bout Stewart's lack of defensive value when we are comparing him to Nunez?     If Nunez was a better player they would keep him and pay the 2M.   How else do you explain them resigning Iglesias for 3.5M?    They see value there.    They have simply determined they can get similar value to Nunez for 1M or more less.    Yes, it is very much money related but certainly not 100%.   Overall Stewart and Nunez, based on Stewart's limited career, look to provide similar offensive value.   Stewart has the added bonus of being left handed and making a lot less money.   Nunez's platoon splits against LHP are ordinary for a RH hitter so a 2M platoon player doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the Orioles.    If Stewart is indeed platooned (his career OPS of .683 in 60 AB's and minor league splits (which another poster alluded to) don't make this a sure thing either.

Point #2.  Is there a team in baseball who will give us a warm body for Nunez got his production and relatively inexpensive salary?    What, if anything, we can get for Nunez will somewhat prove that this is not 100% money related.   If it was, another team would jump to get him, wouldn't they?

Agree with you on Nunez.  But I think you are too high on Stewart.  He is not in the hitting  class of Mancini or Mountcastle at DH.   And Hays, Mullins, Santander and in a few months Diaz are all better defensive outfielders.  

I think Stewart is more likely to be at AAA until injuries hit.

 

[NCRaven]

This is silly.  Every decision on a ML roster has a money element.  I still think that other issues were more important for Nunez, but, of course, money is always a factor.

[Yardball85]

On 11/21/2020 at 1:43 AM, Sports Guy said:

I don’t see it as a conundrum because you have no one who is a definite and you should be cutting Davis as soon as you know when the season is starting.

You could have gone to arbitration, agreed with him on a number and then cut him in ST and only be on the hook for 20% of the salary.  Without knowing what’s happening with Mancini or several of the COers, that’s a small price to pay for a productive insurance policy.

I agree he’s the lowest upside in terms of being an all around player but he has value and 800 OPS/30 homer guys don’t grow on trees.

Agreed.  From the standpoint of "we are trying to field the best baseball team we can" (which seems to be what the Orioles are at least pretending to do) cutting Nunez before Davis is maddening and stupid.

[MCO'sFan]

12 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Agreed.  From the standpoint of "we are trying to field the best baseball team we can" (which seems to be what the Orioles are at least pretending to do) cutting Nunez before Davis is maddening and stupid.

From a baseball perspective cutting Nunez before Davis is maddening and stupid but, there is a big difference. They can't get out of paying Davis but, they can Nunez. If fact, without having to pay Davis they may have kept Nunez. The O's are still feeling the sting of PA's mismanagement of the team and they will until 2037 or whenever they finish off paying Davis. 

[wildcard]

33 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

To start the year I suspect we'll see Mountcastle in LF, Mancini at 1B, and Stewart at DH.  After that it depends on what Diaz does in AAA and the others are doing in the bigs.

So Hyde loves Mullins' defend in center and Mullins hits right-hander for almost a 800 OPS and Hyde is going to just sit Mullins  so can DH Stewart.  Makes no sense to me.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

So, you say that the difference in Stewart money and Nunez money is insignificant in baseball terms and then say the move is 100% because of money.  How's that cake?

You agree that Iglesias has value and Nunez has very little.  You seem to be agreeing with me.  

I agree that there is risk from a depth perspective as Hays, Santander, and Stewart have had trouble staying on the field at different points.  

1). Because we have cheap owners who are making a big deal about the money.  That’s my whole point!  The money is nothing and yet they are making a big deal about it.

2). I think Nunez has good offensive value but not all around value.  Iglesias has good value for his position at his salary.

3). You can add Diaz and Mancini to that list.