John Means 2021

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Johnny Vander Meer says hi!

Heres a too-long article on how pitchers do in the game before an after their no hitters.   Or, I’ll save you the trouble of reading it: the average outcome of those games is pretty much the same as the average outcome of all games for those pitchers.   So, a pitcher isn’t likely to be particularly better or worse than their average performance the next time out.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/prestonjg.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/looking-at-pitchers-performances-before-and-after-a-no-hitter/amp/
 

Hmmmm, well my article says THIS:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/how-do-pitchers-fare-after-a-no-hitter/

 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Johnny Vander Meer says hi!

Heres a too-long article on how pitchers do in the game before an after their no hitters.   Or, I’ll save you the trouble of reading it: the average outcome of those games is pretty much the same as the average outcome of all games for those pitchers.   So, a pitcher isn’t likely to be particularly better or worse than their average performance the next time out.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/prestonjg.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/looking-at-pitchers-performances-before-and-after-a-no-hitter/amp/
 

I've long thought that Vander Meer had a big advantage because his 2nd no hitter came in a night game (actually a 9:20 pm start).  Night games in the Majors began in 1935, but most games were still day games prior to WWII.  The 1938 Reds only played 11 night games, the Braves 22ish.  That year NL batting averages were 30 points lower at night (only .239), OPSes 50 points lower.

In other words, the lights weren't very good.

[DrungoHazewood]

One other John Means note... there have been 57 games in the bb-ref database where a pitcher in a nine-inning game had a game score of 98 or higher.  Three of them by Orioles this century: Mike Mussina, 8/1/2000, Erik Bedard on 7/7/2007 (my brother's 30th birthday), and Means.

Mussina had another a year later after he'd left for the team that must not be named.  And Jake Arrieta had one for the Cubs in '15.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

One other John Means note... there have been 57 games in the bb-ref database where a pitcher in a nine-inning game had a game score of 98 or higher.  Three of them by Orioles this century: Mike Mussina, 8/1/2000, Erik Bedard on 7/7/2007 (my brother's 30th birthday), and Means.

Mussina had another a year later after he'd left for the team that must not be named.  And Jake Arrieta had one for the Cubs in '15.

The Mussina game wasn't this century. 

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The Mussina game wasn't this century. 

Of course you're one of those people.  How do you know there wasn't a year zero?  There could have been.  And I can define a century/millennium any way I want.

[jabba72]

2 hours ago, Gurgi said:

There is no monetary reasons to move Means but that does not mean in a rebuild he wont get moved.  If the plan is to milk the high draft picks by sucking for a few more years Means being a true ace and dominating every fifth day will act as a giant parachute behind the team pulling us up towards .500.  

What could we get for him now?  I am kind of curious if we could not move him and take some teams entire heart out of their minor league system.   Because on paper he has to be worth more than Bedard because he is cheaper and has more years left of control and has no mental issues like Bedard had.  Means also does not come with prior Tommy John issues.  If Means keeps up this pace of Ace pitching would you be tempted to do a mega deal if some team gave up the farm?

I hope Elias would. I agree Means value is not going to get any higher than this offseason if he keeps up this pace. While Tillman and Jones were good players. I would want more then that for Means. Top #1 pitchers should bring more than that. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, Gurgi said:

There is no monetary reasons to move Means but that does not mean in a rebuild he wont get moved.  If the plan is to milk the high draft picks by sucking for a few more years Means being a true ace and dominating every fifth day will act as a giant parachute behind the team pulling us up towards .500.  

What could we get for him now?  I am kind of curious if we could not move him and take some teams entire heart out of their minor league system.   Because on paper he has to be worth more than Bedard because he is cheaper and has more years left of control and has no mental issues like Bedard had.  Means also does not come with prior Tommy John issues.  If Means keeps up this pace of Ace pitching would you be tempted to do a mega deal if some team gave up the farm?

I just saw this.

Mental issues?

WTH?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Hmmmm, well my article says THIS:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/how-do-pitchers-fare-after-a-no-hitter/

1.   12 games = SSS

2.   They are limiting themselves to games where the pitcher threw 120+ pitches.   Means only threw 113.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Easy choice for American League player of the week. 

 

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Easy choice for American League player of the week. 

 

According to Roch, the last Orioles pitcher to be American League Player of the Week was Arthur Rhodes in 1994.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

14 minutes ago, SteveA said:

According to Roch, the last Orioles pitcher to be American League Player of the Week was Arthur Rhodes in 1994.

Whoa. How did Mussina never get the honor? (Apparently Mussina did start winning the player of the week award, three times, when he became a Yankee.)

I remember Rhodes pitching back to back shutouts in 1994 right before the strike to win the player of the week award. 

[HowAboutThat]

31 minutes ago, SteveA said:

According to Roch, the last Orioles pitcher to be American League Player of the Week was Arthur Rhodes in 1994.

Didn’t Beckham get it his first week with us?

 

[HowAboutThat]

Interesting comment from a chat at MLBTraderoumors:

 

 

 

Dave Mc

8:51

When do the Orioles trade John Means for prospects? How much will they get?

 

Mark P

8:53

As someone who wrote in this very chat a few weeks ago that Means was only an okay trade asset.....well, I'm definitely eating my words.

He's looked tremendous thus far, and if he really has turned the corner and become a legit front-of-the-rotation type of pitcher, Baltimore's asking price will suddenly be enormous.  That kind of quality pitcher + control through the 2024 season = a big return for the O's. At this point, I think they'd want more than the Pirates got for Musgrove.

[bpilktree]

15 minutes ago, Philip said:

Interesting comment from a chat at MLBTraderoumors:

 

 

 

Dave Mc

8:51

When do the Orioles trade John Means for prospects? How much will they get?

 

Mark P

8:53

As someone who wrote in this very chat a few weeks ago that Means was only an okay trade asset.....well, I'm definitely eating my words.

He's looked tremendous thus far, and if he really has turned the corner and become a legit front-of-the-rotation type of pitcher, Baltimore's asking price will suddenly be enormous.  That kind of quality pitcher + control through the 2024 season = a big return for the O's. At this point, I think they'd want more than the Pirates got for Musgrove.

I would hope more then Musgrove.  Musgrove has never been great and just one year era under 4 which was last year at 3.86 in 8 starts.  He also had two years less control. The Pirates didn’t get that much for Musgrove either.  We better get lot better deal then Pirates gif for Musgrove or we shouldn’t trade him.  They didn’t get one top 100 guy and the only got one guy in their current top 15 in organization.

[SteveA]

36 minutes ago, Philip said:

Didn’t Beckham get it his first week with us?

 

Means was the first Oriole PITCHER since 1994 to win it