Negative production, no depth

[Tony-OH]

23 hours ago, eddie83 said:

Elias needs some Roland Hemond magic. Find this version of Milligan, Devo, Tettleton, Orsulak, Bradley. Eventually Hoiles and Anderson became strong players. He basically rebuilt the lineup minus Cal from next to nothing. Trading Boddicker for Brady of course helped.  Lynn for Hoiles   

Hemond will be remembered for Eddie deal -not enough return and Davis trade. He did do some good things while he was here with a cheap owner. 
 

Different world now. I don’t see any trades bringing back that type of talent. Would be nice to find some undervalued players like Max Muncy, Urshela, Voit etc.  

I like what Elias has done with the draft and the international scouting, but he and his people have shown no ability to find these types of players. Most of his waiver claims were nothing more than replacement level or worse. Perhaps this is by design because he's trying to get good draft picks, but it has made for awful, awful baseball to watch at the major league level. 

Now his trading for prospects is still an unknown though several players are showing progress, but until they do well at the major league level he can't get credit for them yet.

 

[wildcard]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I like what Elias has done with the draft and the international scouting, but he and his people have shown no ability to find these types of players. Most of his waiver claims were nothing more than replacement level or worse. Perhaps this is by design because he's trying to get good draft picks, but it has made for awful, awful baseball to watch at the major league level. 

Now his trading for prospects is still an unknown though several players are showing progress, but until they do well at the major league level he can't get credit for them yet.

 

We can give Elias credit for trading for decent prospects, just not major leaguers yet.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

We can give Elias credit for trading for decent prospects, just not major leaguers yet.

Sure and that would be a great thing if the ultimate goal was to have decent prospects.

[Frobby]

It’s worth noting that Severino, who takes endless heat around here, current stands at +0.4 rWAR.   Sisco and Wynns each at -0.3 with OPS sub-.440.    

Of course, fWAR has him at -0.2.   

What annoys me about Severino is that he came here with a reputation as a glove-first catcher.   It just seems like he has the tools to be better defensively than he is.   Just too many occasions where he doesn’t move his feet when the pitch is wide of the plate to get his body in front of the ball.   And, he seems to lose focus on actually catching the baseball at times.   

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

It’s worth noting that Severino, who takes endless heat around here, current stands at +0.4 rWAR.   Sisco and Wynns each at -0.3 with OPS sub-.440.    

Of course, fWAR has him at -0.2.   

What annoys me about Severino is that he came here with a reputation as a glove-first catcher.   It just seems like he has the tools to be better defensively than he is.   Just too many occasions where he doesn’t move his feet when the pitch is wide of the plate to get his body in front of the ball.   And, he seems to lose focus on actually catching the baseball at times.   

 

I've noticed that over the season.

It leads me to doubt rWAR more than anything else.

 

[SteveA]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s worth noting that Severino, who takes endless heat around here, current stands at +0.4 rWAR.   Sisco and Wynns each at -0.3 with OPS sub-.440.    

Of course, fWAR has him at -0.2.   

What annoys me about Severino is that he came here with a reputation as a glove-first catcher.   It just seems like he has the tools to be better defensively than he is.   Just too many occasions where he doesn’t move his feet when the pitch is wide of the plate to get his body in front of the ball.   And, he seems to lose focus on actually catching the baseball at times.   

 

I think catchers that make it to the majors and don't hit well often get labelled as "glove-first" just as a kneejerk reaction.   People must feel that he wouldn't have made the majors if he didn't bring something to the table.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I think catchers that make it to the majors and don't hit well often get labelled as "glove-first" just as a kneejerk reaction.   People must feel that he wouldn't have made the majors if he didn't bring something to the table.

We can check the Mets fan pages and test your theory. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've noticed that over the season.

It leads me to doubt rWAR more than anything else.

 

Catcher defense is probably the hardest thing to measure in baseball.   I don’t really understand what metric rWAR is using for catcher defense.  At all other positions, they use Rdrs and call it Rfield when used as a component of rWAR.  But for Severino, Rdrs is -9 whereas Rfield is +1.    So clearly they’re using something else - Lord knows what, since I’m not aware of any other metric that has Severino’s defense in positive territory.