Could Jahmai Jones be a better overall left fielder than Austin Hays?

[wildcard]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t understand the “does not hit” part of your sentence.   He has a .734 OPS.   That’s not great, but it’s not awful.   The average AL OPS in LF this year is .706.  So he’s slightly above average with the bat for LF, and well above average with the glove.  And that’s how he gets to a place where he’s on pace for a 3+ rWAR season, which is above average for a starter.    

Sorry, a WAR that is based on defense does not help the offense.  The O's have to compete in the AL East.   734 OPS does not cut it for a LF IMO.   The O's need a 5 run offense to compete is the division. Average does not do it and is not what the O's should be shooting for.

[Yossarian]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I think we've seen enough of Stewart. He provide no defensive value and I think the bat will always be streaky but will never amount to anything worth his deficiencies in his defensive game. 

I agree

[SteveA]

41 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I'd like to see Vavra and Dorrian promoted to AAA.  There is the infield help.

Vavra is on the IL with a back injury and isn't expected to return to the field until mid August.

[Yossarian]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

For now, Mullins is the only certainty.  And that remains to be seen...is it a ridiculously hot first half?  Can he do this again next year?

The rest of the guys are expendable.  Yes, even Hays.  None have stepped up to snatch a corner outfield spot to make it theirs.  Either poor performance, injury or both.

Throw Jones into the mix, see what happens.  

If we haven't even developed two everyday outfielders in this rebuilding process yet, we are further behind than I feared.  There isn't a whole lot coming up through the minors that are quality outfielders, right?  Where are the everyday starters going to come from?  Losing the 2014 and 2016 first round picks has really hurt us now.  They should be players now in their prime and be either foundations for a good young team going forward, or valuable trade offerings.  Then there's the tragedy that has befallen Kjerstad that (I'm awful for saying this) puts the O's even further behind with the loss of another solid first rounder.  

If we don't have even two dependable, solid, everyday outfielders out of the 6 mentioned, where do we get them?  Especially considering the holes in pitching, 2B, and 3B we have.  Now I'm depressed again.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

If we haven't even developed two everyday outfielders in this rebuilding process yet, we are further behind than I feared.  There isn't a whole lot coming up through the minors that are quality outfielders, right?  Where are the everyday starters going to come from?  Losing the 2014 and 2016 first round picks has really hurt us now.  They should be players now in their prime and be either foundations for a good young team going forward, or valuable trade offerings.  Then there's the tragedy that has befallen Kjerstad that (I'm awful for saying this) puts the O's even further behind with the loss of another solid first rounder.  

If we don't have even two dependable, solid, everyday outfielders out of the 6 mentioned, where do we get them?  Especially considering the holes in pitching, 2B, and 3B we have.  Now I'm depressed again.

I think we'll be fine.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Vavra is on the IL with a back injury and isn't expected to return to the field until mid August.

With the minor league league schedule going to about September 19th, Vavra should be able to get in one more month of playing time.

[SteveA]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

With the minor league league schedule going to about September 19th, Vavra should be able to get in one more month of playing time.

Yeah, but unlikely  he comes off the IL and goes immediately to AAA as Wildcard hoped, probably stays in AA.

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Sorry, a WAR that is based on defense does not help the offense.  The O's have to compete in the AL East.   734 OPS does not cut it for a LF IMO.   The O's need a 5 run offense to compete is the division. Average does not do it and is not what the O's should be shooting for.

You can have whatever opinion you want.   The average OPS in LF is .706.   That’s a fact, not an opinion.   

i will gladly fill my entire team with 3 WAR players and not worry about whether their WAR is coming from offense or defense.    The whole concept of WAR is that scoring a run and preventing a run are equally important.   

Hypothetically, let’s say Hays is a 3 WAR player and 2 WAR of that comes from defense, 1 WAR from offense.   And let’s say Jones is a 2.5 WAR player, 2 WAR from offense and 0.5 WAR from defense.   Which player do I want?   The 3 WAR player, Hays.   

Plus, as I said initially, I think Hays will hit better as the season goes on, even though his current numbers are already decent for a LF.  That’s an opinion, not a fact.  

Finally, offense of this team could be better, but that’s not the big problem for this team.  We are not going to compete in the division this year, obviously, and the crappy pitching is 75% of the reason why.  

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, SteveA said:

Yeah, but unlikely  he comes off the IL and goes immediately to AAA as Wildcard hoped, probably stays in AA.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking too and Norfolk will be next spring for Vavra. 

[Aristotelian]

6 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

If we haven't even developed two everyday outfielders in this rebuilding process yet, we are further behind than I feared.  There isn't a whole lot coming up through the minors that are quality outfielders, right?  Where are the everyday starters going to come from?  Losing the 2014 and 2016 first round picks has really hurt us now.  They should be players now in their prime and be either foundations for a good young team going forward, or valuable trade offerings.  Then there's the tragedy that has befallen Kjerstad that (I'm awful for saying this) puts the O's even further behind with the loss of another solid first rounder.  

If we don't have even two dependable, solid, everyday outfielders out of the 6 mentioned, where do we get them?  Especially considering the holes in pitching, 2B, and 3B we have.  Now I'm depressed again.

Kjerstad is behind but I see no reason to suspect myocarditis is a career ender. Way too early to be thinking that. Aside from him, Haskin is putting up some exciting numbers. Along with Mullins, Diaz, and Hays I think we could be in good shape in a couple years. What I would like is a big lefty power 1B. JD Mundy could be that guy but is far, far from a sure thing. Then you could get by with a speedy OF that catches the ball. Rays have been getting by with quick athletic type s for years.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Kjerstad is behind but I see no reason to suspect myocarditis is a career ender. Way too early to be thinking that. 

I am very concerned that it could be.   The fact that it has recurred is very troubling.   But hopefully he will eventually shed it.

[Ruzious]

To summarize, as far as what we should do for the rest of this season assuming no injuries, Hayes and Santander should be our corner OFers, Mullins should be our CFer, and Jones should play every day - with 2nd base as the most logical position - given the other opinions mentioned.  Hopefully, another player proves that he should be in the mix - playing some OF, IF and/or DH - particularly if Mancini is traded.  

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Kjerstad is behind but I see no reason to suspect myocarditis is a career ender. 

It's a legit concern.

[wildcard]

26 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Vavra is on the IL with a back injury and isn't expected to return to the field until mid August.

Thanks. first I have heard that.

[wildcard]

22 minutes ago, Frobby said:

You can have whatever opinion you want.   The average OPS in LF is .706.   That’s a fact, not an opinion.   

i will gladly fill my entire team with 3 WAR players and not worry about whether their WAR is coming from offense or defense.    The whole concept of WAR is that scoring a run and preventing a run are equally important.   

Hypothetically, let’s say Hays is a 3 WAR player and 2 WAR of that comes from defense, 1 WAR from offense.   And let’s say Jones is a 2.5 WAR player, 2 WAR from offense and 0.5 WAR from defense.   Which player do I want?   The 3 WAR player, Hays.   

Plus, as I said initially, I think Hays will hit better as the season goes on, even though his current numbers are already decent for a LF.  That’s an opinion, not a fact.  

Finally, offense of this team could be better, but that’s not the big problem for this team.  We are not going to compete in the division this year, obviously, and the crappy pitching is 75% of the reason why.  

 

I am not trying to compete this year.  Trying to get ready for next season.