Phillips, Evans and more released

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes, it’s very radical to do the smart and obvious thing!

Angelos wasn’t willing to deal a Manny at the deadline in 17. He sure as hell wasn’t going to move anyone after 16.  

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Angelos wasn’t willing to deal a Manny at the deadline in 17. He sure as hell wasn’t going to move anyone after 16.  

Yes, I am fully well aware of how terrible of an owner he was/is.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, OrioleDog said:

Agree an after 2016 deal would have been a "smartest guy in the room" type move, though I feel SG/CoC would observe you wouldn't have had to be too smart to think of that one, just so long as no one is worried about Buck's atmosphere.

The Britton inaccuracy/blunder to me was tendering him for 2018 when he was hurt.   My memory is it was known he'd miss a couple months (2018 game log has 1st game June 12th).  You're going to give a hurt great reliever 1/12 for half a season?

Sure, 29 other teams would have had a crack at Half of 2018 Britton, but surely he had all the feelings for that team Trey Mancini will have for the 2022-2023 Orioles.

Now that Trey is still here, we can start watching the seesaw of RBI's and tender probability, though I don't know if a tender before the CBA expires would stick for 2022, or possibly get re-negotiated in the CBA?   If the players obtain some earlier free agency as part of the outcome, a 30-year-old by Opening Day 2022 strikes me as a demographic the Union might like to see as an early class of beneficiary of newly won rights.

Just so long I guess as Rutschman 2022-202x doesn't get messed up.

Britton didn't get hurt until after he was tendered.

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes, it’s very radical to do the smart and obvious thing!

If you don't think it is radical, then give me some examples of other teams that have:

1) Made the playoffs

2) Believed they had a similar playoff contender the next year

3) Dealt away their best player with 2 years of control left

And yes I am aware that #2 turned out to be a completely mistaken belief, but we were 1 game out of a wild card spot the day after Labor Day in 2017.

Once again, not saying it shouldn't have been done, just that it is not something that happens very often even though it should.   It's very hard to look your fans in the face after a playoff season and say we are giving up on next year even though most of these guys are coming back.   The Marlins did it a few times (and were roundly castigated for it).

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Yeah. I didn’t explain myself well. I assume they want to decide about players who are Rule 5 eligible and perhaps some AAA opportunities will arise.  Moving on from players who have no potential future here. 

I think they just have to eject some guys from the upper levels of the system so lower level guys can move up.   We are injecting a whole ton of 22+ year olds into the lower levels of the system from the draft, and they will need to move up fairly quickly.

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, SteveA said:

If you don't think it is radical, then give me some examples of other teams that have:

1) Made the playoffs

2) Believed they had a similar playoff contender the next year

3) Dealt away their best player with 2 years of control left

And yes I am aware that #2 turned out to be a completely mistaken belief, but we were 1 game out of a wild card spot the day after Labor Day in 2017.

Once again, not saying it shouldn't have been done, just that it is not something that happens very often even though it should.   It's very hard to look your fans in the face after a playoff season and say we are giving up on next year even though most of these guys are coming back.   The Marlins did it a few times (and were roundly castigated for it).

I don't really care if it happens or not. I care that those in charge of the team I root for were too incompetent to see the inevitable happening. This team was going nowhere after that 2016 season. The rest of the division was getting stronger (and that really was the biggest reason the Os had the run they did, at least arguably the biggest reason).

It didn't take that long to look into the crystal ball to see that the team was going downhill and the window was shut.

[eddie83]

19 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I think they just have to eject some guys from the upper levels of the system so lower level guys can move up.   We are injecting a whole ton of 22+ year olds into the lower levels of the system from the draft, and they will need to move up fairly quickly.

Good point. 

[Frobby]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I don't really care if it happens or not. This team was going nowhere after that 2016 season. The rest of the division was getting stronger (and that really was the biggest reason the Os had the run they did, at least arguably the biggest reason).

It didn't take that long to look into the crystal ball to see that the team was going downhill and the window was shut.

Easy to say, really hard to do in the real world, where you have a fan base.    Not saying they shouldn’t have done it, but we shouldn’t pretend it’s an easy decision.   Plus, I seriously doubt Dan went into 2017 thinking we wouldn’t be a contender for a playoff spot.

When I look at the 2017 season, the things that stand out are:

1.   Tillman.   The guy had been a core member of our rotation over the previous 4.5 years, and while he had some mild shoulder issues at the end of 2016, I don’t think anyone went into spring training thinking he was washed up as a pitcher.

2.  Gausman.   He looked like a star coming into his own in 2016, and was mediocre (4.68 ERA) in 2017.

3.  Miley.   He’s been decent to good everywhere else he’s been, but he was awful for us (5.61 ERA).

4.  Trumbo.   I wasn’t expecting 2016 redux, but he had a really bad year (.686 OPS).  

5.  Davis.   He wasn’t great in 2016, but he came close to earning his keep.   2017 was the start of his decline into a replacement or worse player (-0.6 rWAR).

There were a lot of things that went wrong that year that weren’t obvious going into the year.  

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Easy to say, really hard to do in the real world, where you have a fan base.    Not saying they shouldn’t have done it, but we shouldn’t pretend it’s an easy decision.   Plus, I seriously doubt Dan went into 2017 thinking we wouldn’t be a contender for a playoff spot.

When I look at the 2017 season, the things that stand out are:

1.   Tillman.   The guy had been a core member of our rotation over the previous 4.5 years, and while he had some mild shoulder issues at the end of 2016, I don’t think anyone went into spring training thinking he was washed up as a pitcher.

2.  Gausman.   He looked like a star coming into his own in 2016, and was mediocre (4.68 ERA) in 2017.

3.  Miley.   He’s been decent to good everywhere else he’s been, but he was awful for us (5.61 ERA).

4.  Trumbo.   I wasn’t expecting 2016 redux, but he had a really bad year (.686 OPS).  

5.  Davis.   He wasn’t great in 2016, but he came close to earning his keep.   2017 was the start of his decline into a replacement or worse player (-0.6 rWAR).

There were a lot of things that went wrong that year that weren’t obvious going into the year.  

Yea because they have done a great job of thinking about the fans since 1998.  Such a stellar organization that have given us to root for.  

If they cared about the fans, Manny would have been extended but PA didn't like him IMO.

[Frobby]

Here’s the OH poll going into 2017.  67% thought we’d win 85+.   I realize that’s a biased sample of people, but it shows it wasn’t obvious the team wouldn’t contend.

 

[Sports Guy]

47 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Here’s the OH poll going into 2017.  67% thought we’d win 85+.   I realize that’s a biased sample of people, but it shows it wasn’t obvious the team wouldn’t contend.

 

First of all, a poll on a fan site where most people are optimistic proves exactly nothing.

Second of all, being a borderline contender for one season doesn’t mean you put the organization in the basement for 5-10 years, especially since that was never going to be a WS championship team.

It was never truly realistic to believe that team was that good.  Hell, the 2016 team wasn’t even that great.  They won 89 games by Pythagorean theorem had them at 84. 

There wasn’t a lot to hang your hat on about that team except for Manny, Brach and Britton.  You had a few other good performance but a lot of mediocre to poor play and you didn’t have a talent foundation that was young and developing either.  And, like I said, the rest of the division was trending upwards after several years of not being that good.

It was pretty obvious that the window was closing rapidly and was likely completely shut.

[CharmCityHokie]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Those trades were more about dumping money than they were the players coming back. Britton was just coming back from injury and struggling, combine that with a big salary, and the Yankees were pretty much the only fit. 
 

Tate is coming around and us under team control until 2026. He also was the #4 overall pick just two years before we traded for him. 
 

I think DD did the best he could with the Britton trade. 
 

The Yankees have paid Britton around $45mm over 3.5 seasons for 116 IP and 3.0 WAR. 

 

My favorite part of the 2015 Draft is how many first rounders ended up Orioles at some point 

Dillon Tate (#4)

Carson Fulmer (#8)

Richie Martin (#20)

DJ Stewart (#25)

Chris Shaw (#31)

Ryan Mountcastle (#36)

Tyler Nevin (#38)

https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?year_ID=2015&draft_round=1&draft_type=junreg&query_type=year_round

 

[interloper]

Saw this coming. Man what a disappointment these trades turned out to be. But it's nice to kind of move on from them and make some room for Elias's guys. 

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Here’s the OH poll going into 2017.  67% thought we’d win 85+.   I realize that’s a biased sample of people, but it shows it wasn’t obvious the team wouldn’t contend.

 

And how many OH posters were in favor of the Trade Britton 2017 preseason thread? Or was there any such thread?

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And how many OH posters were in favor of the Trade Britton 2017 preseason thread? Or was there any such thread?

Sure there was.  In fact, two.  My comment is on the final page of the second thread - basically, we should see what’s out there but let’s not kid ourselves that a trade wouldn’t hurt our bullpen