Getting the roster from 27 to 38

[UMDTerrapins]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Kentucky waterfalls are always great for morale.

  Maybe they’re less about culture, and more about making it harder for batters to pick up the pitchers’ grip. It does seem like the mullets are more prevalent with pitchers!

[Jammer7]

42 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m guessing that getting rid of Harvey isn’t changing the culture in any way.

Well, if you carry those who are not preparing properly, who would rather be hunting…IDK. I think it’s all part of it. When you are the worst team in MLB, you make big changes. You get rid of those who are not committed to delivering on the field. You have to deliver a message to everyone involved.

Mike Elias made the decision based on what he has seen over three years. As bad as he wanted Harvey to be the guy we all wanted him to be, Hunter was not that guy. 

There are various opinions on Harvey here. But to say that Mike Elias is stupid, ok, carry on. I’m out on that one. If Harvey goes on to be a stud, I’ll eat my words with Italian Gravy and a table Chianti. 

[UMDTerrapins]

Side note.....Mark Polishuk of MLB Trade Rumors said this in a live chat tonight: Mullins would cost the Marlins two of Meyer/Cabrera/Sixto, in my view.  And more. I like Mullins a lot and I'm not trying to get rid of him. And that was also pure speculation. But I'd jump all over that trade. With the organizational depth we have in the outfield, adding two very impressive major league ready starter prospects could give our rebuild a quicker return to winning baseball. Meyer, Cabrera, Sanchez stat links for reference. 

Edit: later in the chat, a NY fan asked whether the O's would listen to an offer from Yankees for Volpe: The O's would definitely listen, sure.  They'd want a top-flight prospect back in any Mullins deal, and Volpe would fit the bill. Volpe stats for reference. 

[Pickles]

8 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea, there was also stupidity involved.

That's your default position on anything you don't like, but it's rarely the case, at least with this front office.

They clearly didn't like something about Harvey- and it wasn't his arm.

Now, maybe he'll make them look foolish, or maybe he'll make them look prescient, but it's certainly a calculated decision on their part.

I didn't like the Pop decision and I said so at the time, but for all the angst about it, he's basically in the Dillon Tate class of arm, which I constantly see discredited here.

I will say this though: You can't be consistently letting guys like Pop leave for nothing in return and keep trotting out the bullpen performance they've had the last couple of years.

So this decision will yes be evaluated by whether Harvey ever harnesses his talent, but also by if the Orioles can start fielding a better bullpen.

If the Orioles have a lock down bullpen, I won't much care if Hunter becomes an elite closer elsewhere.  And if Hunter never establishes himself and the Orioles continue to have a terrible bullpen, I won't much care.

 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Jammer7 said:

Well, if you carry those who are not preparing properly, who would rather be hunting…IDK. I think it’s all part of it. When you are the worst team in MLB, you make big changes. You get rid of those who are not committed to delivering on the field. You have to deliver a message to everyone involved.

Mike Elias made the decision based on what he has seen over three years. As bad as he wanted Harvey to be the guy we all wanted him to be, Hunter was not that guy. 

There are various opinions on Harvey here. But to say that Mike Elias is stupid, ok, carry on. I’m out on that one. If Harvey goes on to be a stud, I’ll eat my words with Italian Gravy and a table Chianti. 

I didn’t say Elias was stupid.  It’s the decision that’s stupid.  If Harvey never becomes anything, it’s still a stupid decision at this point in time. (Just like Pop)

Im not even saying that Harvey is uncuttable.  I’m saying that it’s too early to do it and there are too many other guys to cut before him.
 

For example, there is absolutely no way Richie Martin should be here over Harvey.  Zero justification for that.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

That's your default position on anything you don't like, but it's rarely the case, at least with this front office.

They clearly didn't like something about Harvey- and it wasn't his arm.

Now, maybe he'll make them look foolish, or maybe he'll make them look prescient, but it's certainly a calculated decision on their part.

I didn't like the Pop decision and I said so at the time, but for all the angst about it, he's basically in the Dillon Tate class of arm, which I constantly see discredited here.

I will say this though: You can't be consistently letting guys like Pop leave for nothing in return and keep trotting out the bullpen performance they've had the last couple of years.

So this decision will yes be evaluated by whether Harvey ever harnesses his talent, but also by if the Orioles can start fielding a better bullpen.

If the Orioles have a lock down bullpen, I won't much care if Hunter becomes an elite closer elsewhere.  And if Hunter never establishes himself and the Orioles continue to have a terrible bullpen, I won't much care.

 

Well when they do stupid things, it’s easy for that to be the default position.

This isn’t a smart move.  I’m going back to what I said before..there certainly could be more to this than injuries.  
 

Maybe he microwaves baby kittens for fun..I don’t know.  What I do know is, with the info we have, this is a poor decision by a FO who has struggled to find cheap options and who has so far completely failed at putting together a BP.

[NCRaven]

49 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 What I do know is, with the info we have, this is a poor decision by a FO who has struggled to find cheap options and who has so far completely failed at putting together a BP.

Do you have as much information as Elias?

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Well when they do stupid things, it’s easy for that to be the default position.

This isn’t a smart move.  I’m going back to what I said before..there certainly could be more to this than injuries.  
 

Maybe he microwaves baby kittens for fun..I don’t know.  What I do know is, with the info we have, this is a poor decision by a FO who has struggled to find cheap options and who has so far completely failed at putting together a BP.

Thing is, there is TONS of information that we do not have.  Sure, we all have access to the stats, the eyeball test and some analytics.  But putting together a team goes beyond those things too.  Touching on college football, I've seen 'better' players riding the bench because they didn't do some of the 'little' things, weren't good teammates or didn't put in the effort in practice/offseason.  We do not know if any factors like that come into play here.  Some have alluded to some dissatisfaction with how Harvey prepares in the offseason, or how other activities may be more important to him than baseball at times.  I don't know.  What I do know is he was almost always injured, and didn't look great when he was healthy lately.  But as he seems like the exact kind of guy we'd usually take a flyer on, I believe there is more than meets the eye here.  Exactly what we may never officially hear as the Orioles are pretty tight lipped.  If this was due to issues beyond performance, then I hope Harvey learns from this, and realizes that it can take more than just talent to be a successful MLBer.  

At the end of the day, if someone doesn't like Elias, this can be used as a poor decision and we can rant and rave about cutting him when it wasn't needed.  And there likely won't be any proof that you are wrong.  But I believe there has to be more to this than what we know, or likely will ever know.  Otherwise this makes no sense, as there are those on the roster that I too think should have been cut before Harvey.

[ChosenOne21]

Those of you who are sure this is so terrible, remember that the Giants have one of the lowest waiver priorities in baseball. Most other teams didn't want the guy either. Not even rebuilding ones

I agree that as a poster on this message board it looks stupid. But there has to be more here because what, 27 other GMs just took a pass on having him for free too.

[Sports Guy]

7 hours ago, NCRaven said:

Do you have as much information as Elias?

Nope..but so what?  Does that mean, for every decision, we are supposed to say, well he is the Gm and he knows everything, therefore it’s a great move? 
 

Does he deserve the benefit of the doubt?  How good are the pens he has built?  How well have the pitchers he has brought in performed in the majors?  How good has his pitching development in the majors been?  
 

What has he done for us to say that we should trust him on these decisions?  That he just gets a blanket, atta boy for everything he does and says?  
 

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Nope..but so what?  Does that mean, for every decision, we are supposed to say, well he is the Gm and he knows everything, therefore it’s a great move? 
 

Does he deserve the benefit of the doubt?  How good are the pens he has built?  How well have the pitchers he has brought in performed in the majors?  How good is his pitching development in the majors been?  
 

What has he done for us to say that we should trust him on these decisions?  That he just gets a blanket, atta boy for everything he does and says?  
 

 

It's only been three years, we have to give him time.  

[waroriole]

42 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

Those of you who are sure this is so terrible, remember that the Giants have one of the lowest waiver priorities in baseball. Most other teams didn't want the guy either. Not even rebuilding ones

I agree that as a poster on this message board it looks stupid. But there has to be more here because what, 27 other GMs just took a pass on having him for free too.

It makes me think Elias thought this would be the time to get him through waivers. No idea why they’d need to remove him from the 40 man though. 

[Frobby]

19 hours ago, Philip said:

I see no reason to keep Stewart, especially with Stowers as close as he is. Even with the injury potential of Santander and Hays, McKenna has proven to be a valuable addition, even if he doesn’t hit any better than I do.

Shrug.

Stewart -0.3 rWAR, +0.4 fWAR

McKenna: -0.1 rWAR, -0.3 fWAR

They’ve got very different skill sets and they both need to improve.   We know now that Stewart was playing on an injured knee for some part of the season.   I’m in no hurry to cut either player but neither is guaranteed to make the team next spring.    

[Frobby]

9 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I didn’t say Elias was stupid.  It’s the decision that’s stupid.  If Harvey never becomes anything, it’s still a stupid decision at this point in time. (Just like Pop)

Im not even saying that Harvey is uncuttable.  I’m saying that it’s too early to do it and there are too many other guys to cut before him.
 

For example, there is absolutely no way Richie Martin should be here over Harvey.  Zero justification for that.

You are a little quick to use the word stupid for my taste, but it’s certainly a highly questionable decision.   There may be things that went into it that we don’t know about.   I have to agree that based on what we know there are several players (Martin included) I would have taken off the roster before Harvey.  And I do agree that even good GMs sometimes make bad decisions.   Every one of them.  

[waroriole]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Kentucky waterfalls are always great for morale.

How have I never heard Kentucky waterfalls? Hahaha