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John Means 2022

Il BuonO

By Il BuonO
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Bahama O's Fan
Bahama O's Fan

We can have Watkins AND Bradish!

Can_of_corn
Can_of_corn

Nope, still an amateur.  Never had anyone willing to pay me for it.

oriole
oriole

I hate to say it but until he can put up some numbers like he did before they started cracking down on the sticky stuff then I don’t think I totally believe he was as good as he seemed. 

Il BuonO Hangout Grand Counsel

Il BuonO

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8 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Even with his low innings, Means has averaged like 4 WAR a season the last three years- prorating the shortened season.

I'm not sure where that qualifies as a "back of the rotation guy."

Obviously, it doesn't. I am not exactly impressed with his stuff except for the CH, which if he doesn't have, makes him mediocre. As always, I'll be happy if he proves me wrong and continues with the production you noted.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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18 minutes ago, oriole said:

I hate to say it but until he can put up some numbers like he did before they started cracking down on the sticky stuff then I don’t think I totally believe he was as good as he seemed. 

I think by the end of ST MLB will institute the "Bautista rule" which allows some kind stickiness to improve grip.   With Bautista throwing 100mph without any stickiness it could be dangerous.   

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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3 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Obviously, it doesn't. I am not exactly impressed with his stuff except for the CH, which if he doesn't have, makes him mediocre. As always, I'll be happy if he proves me wrong and continues with the production you noted.

His stuff isn't great w/o the change.  The fastballs average, maybe a tick above; the breaking ball is below average; the command is good though.

However, that changeup, when it's going, may well be the best straight change I've seen from  LHP in my lifetime.  That feels hyperbolic, and perhaps it is, but I honestly can't remember a better one.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, Pickles said:

His stuff isn't great w/o the change.  The fastballs average, maybe a tick above; the breaking ball is below average; the command is good though.

However, that changeup, when it's going, may well be the best straight change I've seen from  LHP in my lifetime.  That feels hyperbolic, and perhaps it is, but I honestly can't remember a better one.

Moyer?  Buehrle?  Santana?  Liriano?

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Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

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17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Moyer?  Buehrle?  Santana?  Liriano?

I thought of Moyer but I considered his change more of a circle change w fade.

I remember Santana's more as a split w drop.

I recall Liriano as a young flamethrower with a great breaking ball.

Buehrle is a pretty good comp.

These are of course just my personal remembrances.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I thought of Moyer but I considered his change more of a circle change w fade.

I remember Santana's more as a split w drop.

I recall Liriano as a young flamethrower with a great breaking ball.

Buehrle is a pretty good comp.

These are of course just my personal remembrances.

I’m not too good at differentiating the different types of change ups.   

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Il BuonO Hangout Grand Counsel

Il BuonO

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On 3/17/2022 at 3:06 PM, Pickles said:

His stuff isn't great w/o the change.  The fastballs average, maybe a tick above; the breaking ball is below average; the command is good though.

However, that changeup, when it's going, may well be the best straight change I've seen from  LHP in my lifetime.  That feels hyperbolic, and perhaps it is, but I honestly can't remember a better one.

You’re not wrong. When he has it, it’s beautiful. 

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CharmCityHokie Major Leaguer

CharmCityHokie

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I think the sticky-stuff talk is interesting (not just for Means, but also for Paul Fry), but as I understand it, tack is supposed to increase spin rate, and judging by John Means pitch spin rates over 2021, there is not a real change between before and after the ban:

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/john-means-607644?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

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