Raise your hand if you think Watkins was a better choice than Bradish?

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, deward said:

Sorry, didn't read it as such.

Oh well, there goes my spring break plans.

[Going Underground]

23 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Does  Eeyore Laugh?

He smirks at the idiocy of Piglet and Tigger 

[Bmorebirds24]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't know why you keep throwing out 81 wins like it's some magical number.  But fine.

This offseason I would have signed:

Eduardo Rodriguez 5/77 to Detroit

Corey Kluber 1/8 to Tampa

That would have given us a rotation of Means, Ed-Rod, and Kluber.  Does that get us to 81 wins?  Probably not, but it's a lot better than what we have.  Then G-Rod is promoted and that should be a better than average 4 for the rotation.  

And I would have signed Correa to what the Twins signed him to.   

Those are all moves we could have easily matched.  

 

A 36 year old Kluber is what moves the needle for you? Is this a serious post? How much time did he miss last year? It sounds like you want the Orioles to spend money for the sake of spending money. 
 

So let’s take Means, Lyles, Kluber and E-Rod where does that leave innings for guys line Bradish and such? Does that rotation make us a playoff contender? Why would Kluber want to play for the Orioles when they’re in a rebuild and he’s running out of time left In his career. There’s a good chance that he wouldn’t even want to come to Baltimore. This is not a video game. 
 

The entire organization has been to overhauled from international player scouting and development to player scouting and development and one of the best farm systems in baseball yet people still find a reason to complain. I just don’t get it. Does winning 10 more games a year mean that damn much? 

[Bmorebirds24]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

2022 doesn't fall under more. 

But even allowing for your altered timeline that's a ton of rope before you start questioning.

So if the O's opening day payroll in 2024 is 40 million and they lost 100 games in 2023 you will give them the season before you decide if there might be a problem?

There’s over 150 games left in this season. So it counts in the process. I gave you a time frame when I said a few and now you’re trying to find a loophole for the sake of arguing. 
If they lose over 100 next year I’ll start tightening that rope. 

[Bmorebirds24]

1 hour ago, deward said:

Do you enjoy watching 100-110 losses a year, with most games being totally non-competitive? Many of us don't. I don't see how it at all slows down the rebuild to put a little effort into making the ML product at least a little entertaining. What damage does that do to the plan? A team that goes 70-92 while working in the first wave of prospects would be a much more enjoyable experience this year than Elias' evident intention to neglect giving the fans anything to watch once again. I don't consider not having any reason to turn on the tv for the last four years to be acceptable. It wasn't necessary for a successful rebuild. It was only necessary if the goal was to spend as little money as possible during the process.

It’s sounds like some are more focused on spending money more so than anything. The guy said it would take years when he was hired. Trust the process! 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Bmorebirds24 said:

A 36 year old Kluber is what moves the needle for you? Is this a serious post? How much time did he miss last year? It sounds like you want the Orioles to spend money for the sake of spending money. 
 

So let’s take Means, Lyles, Kluber and E-Rod where does that leave innings for guys line Bradish and such? Does that rotation make us a playoff contender? Why would Kluber want to play for the Orioles when they’re in a rebuild and he’s running out of time left In his career. There’s a good chance that he wouldn’t even want to come to Baltimore. This is not a video game. 
 

The entire organization has been to overhauled from international player scouting and development to player scouting and development and one of the best farm systems in baseball yet people still find a reason to complain. I just don’t get it. Does winning 10 more games a year mean that damn much? 

Dude, a 36 year old Kluber on a 1 year deal absolutely does move the needle for me.  He's arguably better than anyone else we have outside of Means.  And even then, he might outpitch Means, too.

You asked me what I would have done to get this team close to 81 wins, I told you.  Note that I didn't include Lyles.  So, for the reading comprehension impaired:

Means

Ed-Rod

Kluber

G-Rod

Bradish

 

Again, you can't answer the question:

 

Do you want to bring up G-Rod, Hall and AR when the team is at 55 wins and far away from contention/playoffs?  Or when the team is at 75 wins and these three can get us to 85+ wins and meaningful September baseball?  

If you say you want to bring them up when we're a 55 win team without them, you're lying.

[Bmorebirds24]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Dude, a 36 year old Kluber on a 1 year deal absolutely does move the needle for me.  He's arguably better than anyone else we have outside of Means.  And even then, he might outpitch Means, too.

You asked me what I would have done to get this team close to 81 wins, I told you.  Note that I didn't include Lyles.  So, for the reading comprehension impaired:

Means

Ed-Rod

Kluber

G-Rod

Bradish

 

Again, you can't answer the question:

 

Do you want to bring up G-Rod, Hall and AR when the team is at 55 wins and far away from contention/playoffs?  Or when the team is at 75 wins and these three can get us to 85+ wins and meaningful September baseball?  

If you say you want to bring them up when we're a 55 win team without them, you're lying.

I struggle With reading comprehension and you struggle with understanding of rebuilding an entire organization. You want them to spend money for the sake of spending money. You sign Kluber they’re still not bringing up GRod until later in the year. They’re still playing the game. 
 

What makes you think Kluber would have said screw it’s I’ll commit career suicide and sign with the Orioles? Same with ERod who I’m sure has some feelings towards the franchise because didn’t we trade him back when he was close to coming up (i believe) he pitched a few times for the O’s when we were contending? News flash! These athletes have egos. 
 

We can agree to disagree. You want a 100 mil payroll and a 75 win team. I don’t care about the payroll as much as I do a consistently winning franchise. Playoff baseball is a lot of fun at the yard. I’ll take the misery to get to consistent years of it if his plan works. 

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Bmorebirds24 said:

What makes you think Kluber would have said screw it’s I’ll commit career suicide and sign with the Orioles? Same with ERod who I’m sure has some feelings towards the franchise because didn’t we trade him back when he was close to coming up (i believe) he pitched a few times for the O’s when we were contending? News flash! These athletes have egos. 
 

A couple things.

Why would it be career suicide? 

Erod was pretty highly regarded but was actually have a down season when the O's made him the centerpiece of a high profile trade that sent him to a large market team and earned him a Ring.  Why would he have a grudge? 

I mean I don't think he'd sign here but I don't think he's got an issue with the team that signed him.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Bmorebirds24 said:

I struggle With reading comprehension and you struggle with understanding of rebuilding an entire organization. You want them to spend money for the sake of spending money. You sign Kluber they’re still not bringing up GRod until later in the year. They’re still playing the game. 
 

What makes you think Kluber would have said screw it’s I’ll commit career suicide and sign with the Orioles? Same with ERod who I’m sure has some feelings towards the franchise because didn’t we trade him back when he was close to coming up (i believe) he pitched a few times for the O’s when we were contending? News flash! These athletes have egos. 
 

We can agree to disagree. You want a 100 mil payroll and a 75 win team. I don’t care about the payroll as much as I do a consistently winning franchise. Playoff baseball is a lot of fun at the yard. I’ll take the misery to get to consistent years of it if his plan works. 

At no point did I say that Elias hasn't done a masterful job of building up a farm system and making waves in the international markets.  He's done a bang up job from that perspective.  

I don't want them to spend money for the sake of spending money.  Please tell me that Kluber, Ed-Rod, Correa and no Lyles wouldn't have made this team markedly better this year.  Do you really think we'd still be losing 100 games with those 3 and the prospects coming up?

Career suicide?  The guy took a 1 year, 8 million dollar deal!  You mean we couldn't have given him an extra 2 or 3 million to get him to come here?  He took a 1 year deal, he's trying to catch on and have a good season so he can get a multi-year deal this coming offseason and we could have given it to him!  This franchise would NOT be hamstrung by giving Kluber a 2/18 million dollar deal, even if he fell flat on his face.  As far as Ed-Rod goes, money talks.  It's not like Detroit is some amazing team...and these guys do have egos, you don't think Ed-Rod would like the chance to stick it to Boston?

I want a good team for when AR, G-Rod and Hall are ready to come up.  I do not want these guys coming up playing with scrubs.  You obviously think that it's okay for them to come up and playing with scrubs, getting their brains beat in night after night like they have for the past 4 years in a row.  I'd prefer the team to be respectable for when these guys come up so they can win right away instead of trying to have to figure it out at the big league level.

@Sports Guyhas railed on here for awhile about people being brainwashed that losing and being terrible is the only way to build a good franchise and I kind of laughed that off but now I'm not so sure.  So yeah, we can agree to disagree...you obviously think the only way to build a consistent winning franchise is to only spend money at some mythological mark when our top prospects have come up and contributed two or three years of their careers to losing teams.  That's fine.

[Bmorebirds24]

18 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

At no point did I say that Elias hasn't done a masterful job of building up a farm system and making waves in the international markets.  He's done a bang up job from that perspective.  

I don't want them to spend money for the sake of spending money.  Please tell me that Kluber, Ed-Rod, Correa and no Lyles wouldn't have made this team markedly better this year.  Do you really think we'd still be losing 100 games with those 3 and the prospects coming up?

Career suicide?  The guy took a 1 year, 8 million dollar deal!  You mean we couldn't have given him an extra 2 or 3 million to get him to come here?  He took a 1 year deal, he's trying to catch on and have a good season so he can get a multi-year deal this coming offseason and we could have given it to him!  This franchise would NOT be hamstrung by giving Kluber a 2/18 million dollar deal, even if he fell flat on his face.  As far as Ed-Rod goes, money talks.  It's not like Detroit is some amazing team...and these guys do have egos, you don't think Ed-Rod would like the chance to stick it to Boston?

I want a good team for when AR, G-Rod and Hall are ready to come up.  I do not want these guys coming up playing with scrubs.  You obviously think that it's okay for them to come up and playing with scrubs, getting their brains beat in night after night like they have for the past 4 years in a row.  I'd prefer the team to be respectable for when these guys come up so they can win right away instead of trying to have to figure it out at the big league level.

@Sports Guyhas railed on here for awhile about people being brainwashed that losing and being terrible is the only way to build a good franchise and I kind of laughed that off but now I'm not so sure.  So yeah, we can agree to disagree...you obviously think the only way to build a consistent winning franchise is to only spend money at some mythological mark when our top prospects have come up and contributed two or three years of their careers to losing teams.  That's fine.

Now I wasn’t going to respond until I read that last paragraph and you are making an assumption that I don’t get there’s more than one way to skin a cat. What I’m going off of is what Elias said himself. 
 

So he has built this entire organization and his final piece is the ML level. He started at the bottom and built it up. He said this is how it would be and it would take years to translate to the big league level. This narrative that some are brainwashed with losing is the only way to win is pure hogwash. Elias called this from day 1 and I think whats He done he has earned the respect to see if it translates to the big league club. At least Elias was straight to the point  instead of that Yo-yo Duquette who said a bunch of nothing. 
 

ERod wasn’t coming here. 
Kluber is in the final stages of his career playing for a ring. 
Correa we all heard the rumors but that’s not good enough when earlier you wanted to know that they at least tried. 
 

I can do this all night. If you want me to tell you some weaknesses I see in his plan I’ll gladly offer that. But I wont keep talking in circles when arrogance is more important than a baseball conversation. 

[Bmorebirds24]

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

A couple things.

Why would it be career suicide? 

Erod was pretty highly regarded but was actually have a down season when the O's made him the centerpiece of a high profile trade that sent him to a large market team and earned him a Ring.  Why would he have a grudge? 

I mean I don't think he'd sign here but I don't think he's got an issue with the team that signed him.

I don’t know that ERod would but I don’t see him signing here as you mentioned. 
Kluber is 36 I think he’s playing for a ring not the money. I see no benefit in coming here when he can play elsewhere and chase a ring. Maybe I’m wrong but why would a 36 year old pitcher want to sign here? 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bmorebirds24 said:

I don’t know that ERod would but I don’t see him signing here as you mentioned. 
Kluber is 36 I think he’s playing for a ring not the money. I see no benefit in coming here when he can play elsewhere and chase a ring. Maybe I’m wrong but why would a 36 year old pitcher want to sign here? 

Because people seem to like money.

[Bmorebirds24]

Means had forearm issue. Might get that Bradish wish after all. 

Can Means ever stay healthy? 

[Bmorebirds24]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because people seem to like money.

He’s made over $60Mil I’m not sure the 2 more mil from the O’s would have matter. His deal can reach 11 this year with incentives. 

[oriole]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Instead of concentrating of the things you don't like, try concentrating on what you do like.

Bullpen:  There is a lot of discussion and good thoughts about what posters have seen so far.

Rotation:  Means, Grayson, DL, T Wells, Bradish, Zimmermann, Baumann.  Many don't like Lyles but most think he can eat innings.

Infield:  I like three.  Mountcastle, Mateo and Urias

Outfield:  Hays, Mullins, Santander with Stowers already having AAA experience and probably in the majors in a couple of months.

That does not look like tanking to me.

 

 

You’re using players that aren’t on the team as evidence that Elias is not tanking? I get that a lot of those players will be up sometime this year but the fact that they’re not up yet despite being ready while also giving playing time to terrible players that have no business on a major league roster seems like evidence to the contrary. And then you mention Lyles…like Elias couldn’t have spent that money on players that would actually help win games rather than just eat innings. I’m just not really following your logic as to how any of this points to Elias not actively trying to lose games. It’s obvious we’re still watching a bottom dweller by design.