Jorge Mateo

[Sports Guy]

It is possible that Mateo is Gio Urshela or Jose Bautista or someone like that.  An out of nowhere star who develops later in his career.

Its also possible he is a one year (hell, 2 month) wonder.  There is nothing silly about trading him.  A few months ago, most people would have been happy to get a lot of value out of him and now, 2 months later, its silly to trade him?  

For me, this all depends on if they think Gunnar is an above average defensive SS.  I think its clear Westburg has to move off of SS.  That seems like its the case.  So, the SS in 2023 is Mateo or Gunnar.  

As RZ eluded to, you can just put Gunnar at third and that's fine if thats where you think he should be but if he is an above average defensive SS, that's where he should be.  Mateo can be traded or moved to a super UTI role.  

I don't see a scenario where Westburg, Gunnar, Vavra, Urias and Mateo are all on the team in 2023 unless they think Westburg can go to 1st and they move Mountcastle in another deal but I don't see that happening.

The other thing is the presence of Ortiz.  How real is he with the bat?  If the bat is going to be good, you really have don't need both him and Mateo.  They become a little redundant.  

Gunnar is the lynchpin to all of this.  Where he plays determines a lot of the decisions the team will have in front of them.

[wildcard]

39 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I also do not think it is a foregone conclusion that Westburg has a lock on 2B. Vavra and Urias are also viable options. Eventually someone is going to have to be traded.

Yes,  But the O's have been pretty lucky with injuries to position players.    Hays should probably be on the IL right now.   I don't know what Elias is going to do with depth vs trades.  

But I do think when he trades if will be veteran for prospects.   Seems like his MO.

[wildcard]

50 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Right now it’s looking like Mateo at SS. Gunnar at 3B. Vavra as a Zobrist type at COF/2B/DH. The battle will be between Urias and Westburg at 2B. Urias likely is a utility player later next season, but is the day 1 2B. 

Not sure about how long Urias stays.   He had a good May and his July was great but overall he has a 700 OPS.   He needs to do better to stay IMO.

He has shown power and the ability to drive in runs.

Edited August 17, 2022 by wildcard

[Aristotelian]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

if he is an above average defensive SS, that's where he should be.  Mateo can be traded or moved to a super UTI role...

Gunnar is the lynchpin to all of this.  Where he plays determines a lot of the decisions the team will have in front of them.

The question is how to maximize return from the assets. If you think Mateo is undervalued and we don't get good offers, that could mean keeping him at SS with Gunnar at 3B. We did that with Manny/Hardy and it worked out well.

I'm not saying Mateo deserves the Hardy treatment yet but I wouldn't say we have to trade Mateo just because Gunnar is the Plan A for SS. Things can change. 

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

But I do think when he trades if will be veteran for prospects.   Seems like his MO.

When the switch is flipped, it could be veterans for veterans (i.e. position players for pitching) or even prospects for veterans. We shall see! Lots of ways this can be played.

[Ohfan67]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Not sure about how long Urias stays.   He had a good May and his July was great but overall he has a 700 OPS.   He needs to do better to stay IMO.

He has show power and the ability to drive in runs.

I think it unlikely that Urias is a regular next year unless there are significant injuries. But I do think he will be a utility player for the O's next year, at least at the start of the season. 

[clapdiddy]

Regardless of the outcome, it's really a nice problem to have. 

 

[wildcard]

15 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

The question is how to maximize return from the assets. If you think Mateo is undervalued and we don't get good offers, that could mean keeping him at SS with Gunnar at 3B. We did that with Manny/Hardy and it worked out well.

I'm not saying Mateo deserves the Hardy treatment yet but I wouldn't say we have to trade Mateo just because Gunnar is the Plan A for SS. Things can change. 

I would say the order of priority is:

1) Win

2) Maximize assets

[btdart20]

33 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

When the switch is flipped, it could be veterans for veterans (i.e. position players for pitching) or even prospects for veterans. We shall see! Lots of ways this can be played.

I think/hope Elias leans toward veteran (a Urias/Mateo/Santander/Hays type) for veterans (controllable SP).  And mid-level prospect(s) to add value (and even that piece of the trade could have a position-for-pitching prospects aspect too - like a Westburg-esque for a dice roll SP).  

33 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

Regardless of the outcome, it's really a nice problem to have. 

 Absolutely!

[Jim'sKid26]

I would love to hear Tony's take on where Gunnar would best be utilized in 2023.

My understanding is that he can play a solid MLB level SS but is likely GG level at 3B.

Given that Mateo has shown solid defensive chops and provides elite level speed at the bottom of the lineup, why not keep him at SS and have the left side of the infield be rock solid defensively?

[DrungoHazewood]

Someone has probably mentioned this in the 33 pages of this thread, but until today I didn't know that Mateo was the 2016 Yankees' #1 prospect.  Ahead of Aaron Judge.  And was Baseball America's #26 overall prospect in MLB.

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Someone has probably mentioned this in the 33 pages of this thread, but until today I didn't know that Mateo was the 2016 Yankees' #1 prospect.  Ahead of Aaron Judge.  And was Baseball America's #26 overall prospect in MLB.

As a historian how could you not know that?

[ShoelesJoe]

I don’t think we’ll get good value in a Mateo trade any time soon. Other teams will treat him like last year’s player rather than who he is right now, so the return will be minimal. But if he continues to be the impact player we’ve seen over the last 40 games then by next trade deadline he’d bring back significant talent in a deal. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

As a historian how could you not know that?

Because its not some obscure thing from 1917.  

[jabba72]

11 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Someone has probably mentioned this in the 33 pages of this thread, but until today I didn't know that Mateo was the 2016 Yankees' #1 prospect.  Ahead of Aaron Judge.  And was Baseball America's #26 overall prospect in MLB.

I think I remember reading Mateo was a top 100 prospect back when the O's claimed him, but it didnt seem that shocking to me. The O's clearly knew who he was.