Jorge Mateo

[RZNJ]

AND I think McKenna has made similar adjustments!!!   The previous version of McKenna would have had little chance against Manoah.  Last night he had 3 good AB's against him.

[DenaOsHon]

Mateo has earned the chance to be our starting SS next year. Put Gunnar at 3B and Jordan/Norby at 2B and let Ortiz continue to develop at AAA.

[wildcard]

Well I don't agree with Meoli.   His  "but he’s not going to be this team’s shortstop once the Orioles decide Gunnar Henderson or Jordan Westburg are ready."   is just not how I see this going.   I think Mateo stays at SS for 2023 and 2024.   Gunnar shifts to 3B and Westburg to 2B.   Then in 2025 Mateo is traded for a haul and Gunnar moves to SS.

I do not think its a foregone conclusion that Gunnar begins his career at SS.

[btdart20]

16 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

500 PAs with us. .700 OPS. 13 HR. 32 SB. GG defense at SS. Those are JJ Hardy type numbers. What more do people want?  

His biggest gap has been his abysmal OBP and K%.  Sub-.300 is unacceptable for any hitter, but for Mateo it's a waste of his speed.  To be clear, he's earned the SS job with many other metrics and value-adds.  2021 was a good year for him.  The start of 2022 was dicey.  He's definitely maturing before our eyes.  

@7Mo interesting read and I enjoyed your take on Mateo's improvement as well.  It's good to see how Mateo has identified (or was approachable about) his weakness and has focused on how to address them.  That's an anecdotal answer to the high-level questions that @George Zuverink (and many of us still wrestle with) raised.  

Mateo is the type of guy who is somewhere near the top of the conveyer belt.  How much more upside/solidifying the floor is there?  Is this a good sell-high moment?  I'm curious what type of market value he has quite honestly.  Not because I want to take a step back at SS, but because I want to maximize player value for the org for long-term.  Again, I fully expect him to be back at SS and he's earned the job.  However, running a business has to be an eternal/on-going concern based on non-emotional inputs.

[MouncastleandMcCormick]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I don’t think he’s a fluke. I think he’s more of a guy putting it all together when MLB playing time, opportunity, and coaching. At first, he had to worry about SS defensively. He’s got that locked down. Then he was able to get coached up on his batting. Now he’s taken off, and confidence is a hell of a drug. Watch out. 
 

Nobody would have predicted that after trading Mancini, it would be Mateo that would be really helping to drive the offense. 

We had a 30/30 guy last year in Mullins. Well Mateo is going to be real close to around a 20/40 year. 

This seems impossible, but the longer this goes on, it makes you wonder how much more impossible is in store.  Melvin Mora didn't start getting regular playing time until he was 28 and still wound up being one of the most valuable Orioles for eight or nine years.  The odds are maddeningly small, but we've seen it before.

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Well I don't agree with Meoli.   His  "but he’s not going to be this team’s shortstop once the Orioles decide Gunnar Henderson or Jordan Westburg are ready."   is just not how I see this going.   I think Mateo stays at SS for 2023 and 2024.   Gunnar shifts to 3B and Westburg to 2B.   Then in 2025 Mateo is traded for a haul and Gunnar moves to SS.

I do not think its a foregone conclusion that Gunnar begins his career at SS.

I also do not think it is a foregone conclusion that Westburg has a lock on 2B. Vavra and Urias are also viable options. Eventually someone is going to have to be traded.

[sportsfan8703]

1 minute ago, MouncastleandMcCormick said:

This seems impossible, but the longer this goes on, it makes you wonder how much more impossible is in store.  Melvin Mora didn't start getting regular playing time until he was 28 and still wound up being one of the most valuable Orioles for eight or nine years.  The odds are maddeningly small, but we've seen it before.

I love Mora but he might have had some artificial help, but so did everyone he competed against so it was a level playing field. 
 

Mateo was always a top talent with 5 tools and a few top 100 rankings. The Padres just didn’t have time to develop him at the MLB level like we’re doing. 

[7Mo]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Mateo is the type of guy who is somewhere near the top of the conveyer belt.  How much more upside/solidifying the floor is there?  Is this a good sell-high moment?  I'm curious what type of market value he has quite honestly.  Not because I want to take a step back at SS, but because I want to maximize player value for the org for long-term.  Again, I fully expect him to be back at SS and he's earned the job.  However, running a business has to be an eternal/on-going concern based on non-emotional inputs.

Agreed. I think the question is whether his trade value is higher this offseason or next trading deadline? I'd bet on Mateo raising his value next season.

And just to clarify, all I posted was from Meoli. I just messed up a paragraph copy when I posted. 

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I also do not think it is a foregone conclusion that Westburg has a lock on 2B. Vavra and Urias are also viable options. Eventually someone is going to have to be traded.

Right now it’s looking like Mateo at SS. Gunnar at 3B. Vavra as a Zobrist type at COF/2B/DH. The battle will be between Urias and Westburg at 2B. Urias likely is a utility player later next season, but is the day 1 2B. 

[Gurgi]

Honestly I would sell high on Mateo.  We obviously can fill SS next season with Henderson.   I think the odds are Mateo reverts back to norm soon.  It would be wise to try to get something for him before that happens.

[ShoelesJoe]

Quote

but he’s not going to be this team’s shortstop once the Orioles decide Gunnar Henderson or Jordan Westburg are ready.

Hard to believe anybody watching Mateo day in day out could write that. At present he’s the rock of our infield, with every other position being in flux for various reasons. If he remains even close to present production going forward I wouldn’t expect Mateo to get moved off SS until Holiday is ready for the show in 2-3 years. I know, some people would think that’s a huge IF, but right now I’m not so sure. He looks like a different player now than before, and he’s certainly playing like one. This could very well be who he is. 

[Aristotelian]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Right now it’s looking like Mateo at SS. Gunnar at 3B. Vavra as a Zobrist type at COF/2B/DH. The battle will be between Urias and Westburg at 2B. Urias likely is a utility player later next season, but is the day 1 2B. 

I agree, Westburg is Plan A, I am just saying it's not a lock and we have other options. Mateo has already changed the calculus and it could change again if Vavra overperforms or Westburg underperforms, etc. 

[RZNJ]

22 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Well I don't agree with Meoli.   His  "but he’s not going to be this team’s shortstop once the Orioles decide Gunnar Henderson or Jordan Westburg are ready."   is just not how I see this going.   I think Mateo stays at SS for 2023 and 2024.   Gunnar shifts to 3B and Westburg to 2B.   Then in 2025 Mateo is traded for a haul and Gunnar moves to SS.

I do not think its a foregone conclusion that Gunnar begins his career at SS.

OR Gunnar goes to 3B and stays there and SS is groomed for Holliday.   Mateo and Ortiz can keep it warm in the meantime. 

[Baltimorecuse]

If they trade Mateo they're nuts.  

[RZNJ]

21 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Right now it’s looking like Mateo at SS. Gunnar at 3B. Vavra as a Zobrist type at COF/2B/DH. The battle will be between Urias and Westburg at 2B. Urias likely is a utility player later next season, but is the day 1 2B. 

That's a pretty good take.  Westburg and Mateo can each play all three spots so one could be the utility guy getting multiple starts per week while the other has the starting spot.