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Anyone else seen enough of Odor?

Natty

By Natty
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LA2 Hangout Grand Counsel

LA2

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2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think to understand why Hyde has been relatively satisfied with Odor, you just need to look at 2021.   That year, we had nine different players play 2B.   Collectively, they hit .182/.245/.282 and turned 81 DPs all season. 

Just to fill out the comparison, this year's team already has 108 DPs (second behind KC), which puts them on a pace to reach 144-145 for the season: a huge improvement of 79%. Interesting that the Yankees have the lowest total so far: 75. (Of course, not all DPs involve the 2nd baseman, but it's probably a good approximation.)

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e16bball
e16bball

Hmm, first I’ve heard of the idea, but now that you mention it, maybe Odor could stand to be replaced. 

Ripken
Ripken

Yes, everyone in the entire world wants that except Elias, Hyde, our opponents, and Odor's family.

Jammer7
Jammer7

Good morning. Every player makes errors. Odor is certainly a flawed player, perhaps the most flawed player on the roster. I’m not arguing he is anything else. (Chirinos too.) But he also grinds, and t

DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LA2 said:

Just to fill out the comparison, this year's team already has 108 DPs (second behind KC), which puts them on a pace to reach 144-145 for the season: a huge improvement of 79%. Interesting that the Yankees have the lowest total so far: 75. (Of course, not all DPs involve the 2nd baseman, but it's probably a good approximation.)

Paradoxically, poor teams tend to have better traditional fielding stats, including double plays turned, than good teams.  I think the Orioles are quite good at turning two and metrics like the 79% turned/opportunity reflect that. But just the fact that KC leads the league points to the fact that one of the primary drivers of DPs turned is opposition runners on base.  If you find a great pitching team, one with a ton of Ks, you'll usually see their fielders pretty far down the GIDP list because they just don't get the opportunities.  And no matter what you have to eventually get 27 outs for the game to be over.

Edited by DrungoHazewood
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Brooks The Great Major Leaguer

Brooks The Great

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2 hours ago, maybenxtyr said:

I wonder if they promote him this week instead of Henderson? I really don't get the feeling that they're in a hurry to get Henderson up.

Henderson is the #1 prospect in baseball for several prospect publications. He's more ready than Westburg is, at a younger age. He plays well defensively at 3B, where he can start and push Urias over to 2B or the bench (for games Vavra starts at 2B).

Henderson wouldn't have started playing 1B and 2B recently if a callup isn't imminent, in my opinion. Gunnar's ready, we need him in the lineup, he's ROY eligible for 2023 if he's promoted tomorrow or later, and we're pushing for a playoff spot for the first time in 6 years. He's going to be up soon.

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maybenxtyr Hangout Veteran Council

maybenxtyr

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18 minutes ago, Brooks The Great said:

Henderson is the #1 prospect in baseball for several prospect publications. He's more ready than Westburg is, at a younger age. He plays well defensively at 3B, where he can start and push Urias over to 2B or the bench (for games Vavra starts at 2B).

Henderson wouldn't have started playing 1B and 2B recently if a callup isn't imminent, in my opinion. Gunnar's ready, we need him in the lineup, he's ROY eligible for 2023 if he's promoted tomorrow or later, and we're pushing for a playoff spot for the first time in 6 years. He's going to be up soon.

There's no doubt which is the better prospect at the moment. It was just a suggestion to not have to start Henderson's clock early.

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Sanfran327 Hangout Grand Counsel

Sanfran327

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I appreciate what Odor has done to help get us to this point, but there's zero chance he can provide more than Henderson at this point. I think there's got to be some concern as to whether or not Urias can be as good of a double play partner with Mateo as Odor has been, but that's not as important as the overall defensive upgrade at two positions (upgrading 3b and 2b) and the massive offensive upgrade with Henderson's bat instead of Odor's. Keep him for a LH PH option, but that's all. He's obviously popular with the guys, so keep him around and DFA Nevin.

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

Ohfan67

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19 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

There's no doubt which is the better prospect at the moment. It was just a suggestion to not have to start Henderson's clock early.

I think if they were going to focus on Henderson's service time, then he would have spent almost the whole year in AA. They promoted him to AAA at a very young age. Elias has openly suggested that Henderson could help the team. They are giving Henderson starts at 1B and 2B. Everything points to a promotion in the near future. It looks like they may care about Henderson retaining his rookie eligibility next year, but otherwise it seems like Henderson will be promoted within the next seven days unless the team horribly tanks and makes the wildcard look super remote or something happens to Henderson. 

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ChuckS Hangout Grand Counsel

ChuckS

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Gotta imagine Urias is the primary 2B if Henderson is promoted with Vavra getting some starts there against tough righties.  Tough to see how Odor fits in at that point, but Nevin would probably be the one to go from the 26 man.  

I'm fine with handing him a set of pom poms as long as he remains on the bench. 

Edited by ChuckS
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PHRESH Veteran All-Star

PHRESH

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7 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Gotta imagine Urias is the primary 2B if Henderson is promoted with Vavra getting some starts there against tough righties.  Tough to see how Odor fits in at that point, but Nevin would probably be the one to go from the 26 man.  

I'm fine with handing him a set of pom poms as long as he remains on the bench. 

Odor fits in perfectly right here 

3315774068_3498b399e5.jpg

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OsFanSinceThe80s Hangout Grand Counsel

OsFanSinceThe80s

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Posted this article on Gunnar in his minor league thread, but there's an interesting tidbit about Odor's (lack of) offensive performance this season. Odor's defense isn't good enough at 2B to justify playing him daily. 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-orioles-could-promote-gunnar-henderson-arguably-mlbs-top-prospect-for-a-playoff-push/

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Second base would appear to be the most obvious position for Henderson to slot in at. Rougned Odor's .267 on-base percentage is the seventh worst in the majors among players with at least 350 trips to the plate, and his 78 OPS+ would be his full-season worst since 2017.

 

Edited by OsFanSinceThe80s
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