Mateo's Bottom of the Eighth (Infield in 2023 talk)

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I don't disagree with you here but, I don't want to trade him until Ortiz forces his way up. If that happens then you look to trade Mateo at the deadline. Then Ortiz comes up or, he is a SU until the 23-24 offseason when you trade him. Now if he has an OPS of say .750 then Ortiz has to wait or he plays 2B and Westburg becomes a SU guy. 

What's a guy got to do to force his way up?  Ortiz has done it.  His overall numbers on the season are very good. His last 3 months are off the charts good.  AAA has not slowed him down one iota.

[maybenxtyr]

Mateo is a prime example of the good and bad of the current team. He does enough that he's certainly valuable, but not enough to count on. He would make sense to keep if it were not for some options already in the system.

 

At some point this off season Elias needs to make tough decisions if this team plans on rising up to the level of the AL East.

 

I admit that I kinda tuned out of the MiL season once Gunnar came up and the season ended here in Delmarva, but I'm a little confused about wanting Westburg as a sub type player. I thought of him and Gunnar kind of on the same level initially... obviously Gunnar hit another gear. 

[RZNJ]

12 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

It was definitely a strike. Tough pitch to swing at after being set up away-away-away but it was a strike. I don't know where to find it but I would guess that pitch is called a strike at least 90% of the time. 

In the box on tv it was a strike but as I said, it was a pitchers pitch.  On the inside corner at the lowest part of the strike zone.  Maybe a pichers perfect pitch. Hardly a perfect strike to swing at unless you have to.

[Tony-OH]

Mateo is quite the dilemma, but in a good way. His defense is most of his value but when you consider he's playing a GG level SS, that's significant value to any team. His ability to be a disrupter on the base paths and occasional gap pop gives him some additional value despite obvious short comings with getting on base regularly. 

I think Mateo needs another year to cement his value and I think that's what the Orioles will do next year. He will play SS, Henderson will go to 3rd. 2nd base should be a battle between Urias, Westburg and Ortiz with Westburg being the most likely candidate to win the job. Urias could move back to utility and Ortiz gets extra AAA at bats to prove he wasn't just on a heater in the second half of the year.

 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

Mateo is a prime example of the good and bad of the current team. He does enough that he's certainly valuable, but not enough to count on. He would make sense to keep if it were not for some options already in the system.

 

At some point this off season Elias needs to make tough decisions if this team plans on rising up to the level of the AL East.

 

I admit that I kinda tuned out of the MiL season once Gunnar came up and the season ended here in Delmarva, but I'm a little confused about wanting Westburg as a sub type player. I thought of him and Gunnar kind of on the same level initially... obviously Gunnar hit another gear. 

Westburg is good enough to warrant an opportunity to start. No doubt.  It's a numbers game. He may very well be the starting 3B or 2B next year.  Elias needs to figure out where Henderson, Mateo, Urias, Henerson, and Ortiz fit in to start next season.  I don't feel like sending Ortiz and Westburg back to AAA serves any purpose except stalling for time.

[Sports Guy]

Urias is top 5 amongst third baseman in OAA.  Mateo is 7th.  Both have an OAA of 8.

So, why is it that we need to replace Urias but we keep Mateo?  I trust Urias more long term.  He has shown to be a better hitter throughout his pro career and isn’t as much of a free swinger.

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Urias is top 5 amongst third baseman in OAA.  Mateo is 7th.  Both have an OAA of 8.

So, why is it that we need to replace Urias but we keep Mateo?  I trust Urias more long term.  He has shown to be a better hitter throughout his pro career and isn’t as much of a free swinger.

You honestly believe that they have similar defensive value?

Urias is certainly a better hitter.

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Mateo is quite the dilemma, but in a good way. His defense is most of his value but when you consider he's playing a GG level SS, that's significant value to any team. His ability to be a disrupter on the base paths and occasional gap pop gives him some additional value despite obvious short comings with getting on base regularly. 

I think Mateo needs another year to cement his value and I think that's what the Orioles will do next year. He will play SS, Henderson will go to 3rd. 2nd base should be a battle between Urias, Westburg and Ortiz with Westburg being the most likely candidate to win the job. Urias could move back to utility and Ortiz gets extra AAA at bats to prove he wasn't just on a heater in the second half of the year.

 

This is basically my position verbatim.  

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

In the box on tv it was a strike but as I said, it was a pitchers pitch.  On the inside corner at the lowest part of the strike zone.  Maybe a pichers perfect pitch. Hardly a perfect strike to swing at unless you have to.

Yes, that is what I meant by perfect pitch. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Pickles said:

You honestly believe that they have similar defensive value?

Urias is certainly a better hitter.

SS is a more important defensive position, so in that regards, Mateo is more valuable.

But we have other players who can play SS and play it well, so it’s not like we are in trouble there.

So, why clamor to push out Urias and be excited and feel the need to give Mateo another chance?  

You could easily argue that our best lineup is Westburg at first, Ortiz at second, Henderson at SS and Urias at third.  That is a good combo of offense and defense.

 

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Mateo is quite the dilemma, but in a good way. His defense is most of his value but when you consider he's playing a GG level SS, that's significant value to any team. His ability to be a disrupter on the base paths and occasional gap pop gives him some additional value despite obvious short comings with getting on base regularly. 

I think Mateo needs another year to cement his value and I think that's what the Orioles will do next year. He will play SS, Henderson will go to 3rd. 2nd base should be a battle between Urias, Westburg and Ortiz with Westburg being the most likely candidate to win the job. Urias could move back to utility and Ortiz gets extra AAA at bats to prove he wasn't just on a heater in the second half of the year.

 

I do think this is the most likely outcome.  Just hope it’s not what they end up doing.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Sports Guy

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Urias is top 5 amongst third baseman in OAA.  Mateo is 7th.  Both have an OAA of 8.

So, why is it that we need to replace Urias but we keep Mateo?  I trust Urias more long term.  He has shown to be a better hitter throughout his pro career and isn’t as much of a free swinger.

Because Henderson's best defensive position is probably 3B.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

SS is a more important defensive position, so in that regards, Mateo is more valuable.

But we have other players who can play SS and play it well, so it’s not like we are in trouble there.

So, why clamor to push out Urias and be excited and feel the need to give Mateo another chance?  

You could easily argue that our best lineup is Westburg at first, Ortiz at second, Henderson at SS and Urias at third.  That is a good combo of offense and defense.

 

I'm not eager to push out either.  I want Mateo starting at SS next year, and I think Urias should be at least the utility.

But Mateo is the more valuable asset.  I have no doubt about that.

[Morgan423]

45 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Mateo AND Urias can't both start next season on the O's. 

IMO, one of them needs to be our main utility guy next year.  As in, still starts 3-5 times a week, giving tons of regular rest to several other regular starters at various positions.  I've been banging the drum that it should be Mateo (as Henderson can slot in as starting SS), but you could make a case for making Urias that guy and slotting in Gunnar at 3B.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Morgan423

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

I'm not eager to push out either.  I want Mateo starting at SS next year, and I think Urias should be at least the utility.

But Mateo is the more valuable asset.  I have no doubt about that.

FG has Mateo ahead but .2 WAR.  BR hs Urias ahead by .2.

Urias is a year older.  Better bat.

Mateo better speed and plays the more premium position but has basically only been good for one year.

I do think Mateo is the more valuable guy in terms of being able to play more positions although I don’t think you would need him for the OF next year and in that case, I trust Urias more at the other IF positions.

Value is close, certainly not definitive on either side.  Each player has their pros and cons.  Mateo has a wow factor that Urias doesn’t but that doesn’t mean much.