SUN: Cubs interested in Payton

[davearm]

Is that the Cubs' perspective or yours?

It just *might* be possible that Payton is something the Cubs see value in. Do I think Murton for Payton is a good deal for the Cubs? Of course not. But clearly they see value in Payton.

And I see what you are saying with needing to get something in return to make it worth your while, but all you are going to do is ruffle people's feathers by even mentioning the name Billy Rowell as being the piece you also want so we can have Murton. You know nobody is going to say ok to giving up Rowell (or even a prospect of that kind). You may be able to get a solid mid-level guy and some of Payton's contract eaten for a piece that aparently the Cubs feel would upgrade their roster.

Personally, Moore or Kroeger and some mid-level guy from the lower levels for Payton and cash works for me.

It's my perspective, based upon common sense (or at least my version of common sense ) coupled with what I'm hearing from a Cub insider.

That insider says the "2 midlevel prospects" stuff is incorrect, and that Jones is what the Cubs are offering.

[tim27]

It's my perspective, based upon common sense (or at least my version of common sense ) coupled with what I'm hearing from a Cub insider.

That insider says the "2 midlevel prospects" stuff is incorrect, and that Jones is what the Cubs are offering.

Why in the world would the O's want Jones? He's more expensive than Payton, underperforming his contract, and we are already awash in lh outfielders. Of course, if they throw in Pie I guess we could do it.

[davearm]

Jones isn't any more expensive than Payton.

He is better though, and could be the O's everyday CF next year.

[RVAbird]

I didn't say it was realistic.

What is most realistic is Payton for Jacque Jones.

Now if the O's wanted to pick up most of Payton's salary, I'd take Jones out and put a guy like Scott Moore in his place. That'd be OK.

Hey Dave, how are guys like Moore and Kroeger viewed in Cubland?

[JTrea81]

You know I'm wondering if the O's are waiting to announce the deal after the HOF ceremony in respect to Cal?

[birdboy]

Felix Pie was held out of the Iowa Cubs lineup tonight.

Hmmm... could there be a larger trade?

Pie's earlier trial with the Cubs this year may have caused the Cubbies to cool on him...hmmm. Should O's be wary?

[NoVaO]

It's my perspective, based upon common sense (or at least my version of common sense ) coupled with what I'm hearing from a Cub insider.

That insider says the "2 midlevel prospects" stuff is incorrect, and that Jones is what the Cubs are offering.

Ok, that information is useful.

Researching further, I guess it isn't *that* bad a deal, if something on our end is to be included.

Jones has an OPS of .641 this year. Payton is at at .699. Payton is much more of a natural center fielder is probably better defensively than Jone is.

I didn't realize that Payton and Jones have essentially the same contract in terms of when each ends and how much they are worth. I thought Jones had a Gibbons-type contract that ran longer.

Now, you guys are obviously trying to dump Jones. The Orioles are not dumping Payton. Payton is the better player right now and my guess is that the Cubs feel Payton can be a solid piece for their club.

Therefore, my feeling is that if the Cubs want Payton for Jones, they need to include a Moore or Kroeger type, preferably Moore.

Personally, I would rather skip the idea of getting Jones and pay some of Payton's salary and get a mid-level prospect or two.

BTW, what exactly is wrong with Jones. His Ks are down, walks are down, line drives are about where they were last year. His power is way down (only about 3% of his FBs are becoming HRs). Is that what Patterson was going through earlier this year (low Ks, but power gone because his swing was cut down)?

[sector7g]

We do not want Jacque Jones. The last thing we need is another overpaid guy that is abysmal against lefties.

[broberts]

Ok, that information is useful.

Researching further, I guess it isn't *that* bad a deal, if something on our end is to be included.

Jones has an OPS of .641 this year. Payton is at at .699. Payton is much more of a natural center fielder is probably better defensively than Jone is.

I didn't realize that Payton and Jones have essentially the same contract in terms of when each ends and how much they are worth. I thought Jones had a Gibbons-type contract that ran longer.

Now, you guys are obviously trying to dump Jones. The Orioles are not dumping Payton. Payton is the better player right now and my guess is that the Cubs feel Payton can be a solid piece for their club.

Therefore, my feeling is that if the Cubs want Payton for Jones, they need to include a Moore or Kroeger type, preferably Moore.

Personally, I would rather skip the idea of getting Jones and pay some of Payton's salary and get a mid-level prospect or two.

BTW, what exactly is wrong with Jones. His Ks are down, walks are down, line drives are about where they were last year. His power is way down (only about 3% of his FBs are becoming HRs). Is that what Patterson was going through earlier this year (low Ks, but power gone because his swing was cut down)?

Yes it is "that" bad of a deal. Why would we want to increase our salary for a guy who is producing the same amount as Payton? Plus that would leave us with no right handed OF bats.

[tim27]

Jones isn't any more expensive than Payton.

He is better though, and could be the O's everyday CF next year.

I thought he made like 7 next year vs. Payton's 5? Am I wrong?

It's highly debatable if he is better though. Payton is outproducing him this year with the bat and is generally considered the better defender. Payton could be our everyday cf next year; he's just as good. Of course, he's an Oriole and Jones is a Cub so I doubt that you would see it that way- what, with your "perspective" and all.

[davearm]

I thought he made like 7 next year vs. Payton's 5? Am I wrong?

It's highly debatable if he is better though. Payton is outproducing him this year with the bat and is generally considered the better defender. Payton could be our everyday cf next year; he's just as good. Of course, he's an Oriole and Jones is a Cub so I doubt that you would see it that way- what, with your "perspective" and all.

You're wrong. Jones' salary in '08 is $5M, same as Payton's.

They're both overpaid, mediocre veteran outfielders. One's LH, the other's RH.

I guess I'd prefer Jones because over the last two years he's been worth more wins than Payton has (according to WARP3), and he's a couple years younger (or perhaps more accurately, Payton's a couple years further past his prime).

That's my "perspective", [expletive deleted].

[RVAbird]

You're wrong. Jones' salary in '08 is $5M, same as Payton's.

They're both overpaid, mediocre veteran outfielders. One's LH, the other's RH.

I guess I'd prefer Jones because over the last two years he's been worth more wins than Payton has (according to WARP3), and he's a couple years younger (or perhaps more accurately, Payton's a couple years further past his prime).

That's my "perspective", [expletive deleted].

I think you missed my post, but could you give me an idea of how Moore and Kroeger are regarded?

[davearm]

Ok, that information is useful.

Researching further, I guess it isn't *that* bad a deal, if something on our end is to be included.

Jones has an OPS of .641 this year. Payton is at at .699. Payton is much more of a natural center fielder is probably better defensively than Jone is.

I didn't realize that Payton and Jones have essentially the same contract in terms of when each ends and how much they are worth. I thought Jones had a Gibbons-type contract that ran longer.

Now, you guys are obviously trying to dump Jones. The Orioles are not dumping Payton. Payton is the better player right now and my guess is that the Cubs feel Payton can be a solid piece for their club.

Therefore, my feeling is that if the Cubs want Payton for Jones, they need to include a Moore or Kroeger type, preferably Moore.

Personally, I would rather skip the idea of getting Jones and pay some of Payton's salary and get a mid-level prospect or two.

BTW, what exactly is wrong with Jones. His Ks are down, walks are down, line drives are about where they were last year. His power is way down (only about 3% of his FBs are becoming HRs). Is that what Patterson was going through earlier this year (low Ks, but power gone because his swing was cut down)?

If the O's aren't trying to dump Payton, they should be.

Not sure what Jones' problem has been this year, but he's really started hitting better since getting regular PT in CF: 291/375/382 in July, with several clutch RBI hits sprinkled in. His D has been a real pleasant surprise too.

I wouldn't miss Jones for a second if he was gone tomorrow, but I just don't see the point of Jay Payton. We've already got enough guys that can do what he does.

[tim27]

You're wrong. Jones' salary in '08 is $5M, same as Payton's.

They're both overpaid, mediocre veteran outfielders. One's LH, the other's RH.

I guess I'd prefer Jones because over the last two years he's been worth more wins than Payton has (according to WARP3), and he's a couple years younger (or perhaps more accurately, Payton's a couple years further past his prime).

That's my "perspective", [expletive deleted].

We don't need another ovepayed mediocre lh outfielder. This trade makes no sense for the O's. If this is the best the Cubs can do then it isn't happening. No need to get huffy.

[davearm]

I think you missed my post, but could you give me an idea of how Moore and Kroeger are regarded?

Sorry 'bout that.

The MLB outlook for Moore is, a decent second-tier starter on budget-conscious and/or rebuilding team; a decent corner utility/bench guy on a big-market and/or contending team. He's been playing 3B mostly, but can play 1B and OF too. Guys like Geoff Blum and Rob Mackowiak come to mind.

Kroeger is a lot more difficult to pin down. He's a power-hitting RF, but trying to figure out how good he is going to be in MLB is anyone's guess. He's been from the MiLB penthouse (03 and 04) to the outhouse (05 and 06). He's risen from the ashes this year, and I'd love to see him get a shot in the bigs just to see if his 20 HR and 1000 OPS in 2007 would translate. I said in another post, he's about the most intriguing guy in the Cubs system these days, IMO.