The Core/Keepers

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

27 y/o rookie RP are core players? 

I think he’s a borderline core piece.  I would have him on the outside looking in but feel it’s close.

[waroriole]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Listening to your comments I made a few changes.   Now calling the list Core/Keepers. Added Mullins and Tyler Wells to the list.

I hear the comments on Mountcastle but this at his age (25) with  his development defensively.  At this point he just had a bad offensive year and is likely to improve.

In what way is Mountcastle likely to improve? It should be pretty obvious he’s not going to ever be a disciplined hitter. Moving the wall back in LF reduces his power.

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, waroriole said:

27 y/o rookie RP are core players? 

I don’t expect him to go anywhere for the next 4-5 years, assuming health, do you?

 

[waroriole]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I think he’s a borderline core piece.  I would have him on the outside looking in but feel it’s close.

It’s weird to include Bautista but not Mullins. Hyder’s weird aversion to putting LH OF in the lineup against LHP notwithstanding. 

[waroriole]

Just now, RZNJ said:

I don’t expect him to go anywhere for the next 4-5 years, assuming health, do you?

 

I hope he doesn’t. He looked very dominant at times. I’m also somewhat realistic given his knee and shoulder issues at the end of the season, and his age in his rookie season. 1 of those 4 is not like the others. 

[btdart20]

6 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I can't consider a player at a prime offensive position putting up a .724 OPS a core player.  I would be surprised if Elias doesn't have several players in the minors who he considers possible replacements for Mountcastle. 

Who do you think Elias has in mind in the system currently that he may see as a 1B replacement?  Whoever it is either can’t hit or hasn’t played any meaningful 1B?

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, waroriole said:

I hope he doesn’t. He looked very dominant at times. I’m also somewhat realistic given his knee and shoulder issues at the end of the season, and his age in his rookie season. 1 of those 4 is not like the others. 

His age is pretty irrelevant for being a core piece given that he’s a closer. JMO

Dominant at times?  I’d say most of the time.

[btdart20]

6 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I can't consider a player at a prime offensive position putting up a .724 OPS a core player.  I would be surprised if Elias doesn't have several players in the minors who he considers possible replacements for Mountcastle. 

Who do you think Elias has in mind in the system currently that he may see as a 1B replacement?  Whoever it is either can’t hit or hasn’t played any meaningful 1B?

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, waroriole said:

It’s weird to include Bautista but not Mullins. Hyder’s weird aversion to putting LH OF in the lineup against LHP notwithstanding. 

I agree.  Bautista was a great story and was pretty dominant at times.

But he was also prone to the HR and he has a history of command/control issues and is a big guy who could run into mechanical issues at times.

I have full confidence going into next year with him but I need to see him do it again before I would consider him a core guy.

[RZNJ]

Just now, btdart20 said:

Who do you think Elias has in mind in the system currently that he may see as a 1B replacement?  Whoever it is either can’t hit or hasn’t played any meaningful 1B?

Was Mountcastle a 1B in the minors?   I have no idea if there is any thought of converting anyone else to 1B.  They did it with Mountcastle because he was terrible everywhere else.

Logical candidates are Norby, Mayo, and Westburg.   Norby is the lesser defensive player amongst Ortiz and Westburg.  Mayo is both unlikely to stick at 3B and/or blocked if Henderson stays there.   Westburg could be our future 3B, 2B, or …….. 1B?

[btdart20]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Was Mountcastle a 1B in the minors?

Yes.  He got 84 games at 1B in 2019 his last year in the minors.  

[Frobby]

29 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Missed Machado.  It was 1 am when I wrote that post.  Questionable if Tillman and Gonzalez were more core or complementary players. 

Honestly, all these descriptions of “core” players are subjective and everyone has a different idea of what “core” means.   But for fun, here are 2012-16 rWAR totals for some of the players mentioned:

Machado 24.5

Jones 18.9

Davis 17.8

Tillman 12.0

Hardy 11.7

O’Day 9.9

Chen 9.4

Gonzalez 9.4

Wieters 9.0

Schoop 6.4

Britton 4.7

Markakis 4.0

So, who’s a 10+ rWAR player for this team from 2023-27?

Edited October 5, 2022 by Frobby

[btdart20]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Logical candidates are Norby, Mayo, and Westburg.

Yes those are names we toss around.  But how many games have they played at 1B?  

[wildcard]

14 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Was Mountcastle a 1B in the minors?   I have no idea if there is any thought of converting anyone else to 1B.  They did it with Mountcastle because he was terrible everywhere else.

Logical candidates are Norby, Mayo, and Westburg.   Norby is the lesser defensive player amongst Ortiz and Westburg.  Mayo is both unlikely to stick at 3B and/or blocked if Henderson stays there.   Westburg could be our future 3B, 2B, or …….. 1B?

I agree with this but I don't know that Mountcastle will need to be replaced.  He had a better 2021 than 2022.   He could adjust and have a good season next year.   If he is having a poor year next season  Westburg can step in at 1B.

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Yes.  He got 84 games at 1B in 2019 his last year in the minors.  

Not exactly tons of experience there.  I guess your point is that they aren’t just going to put someone there in place of Mountcastle without any 1B experience.  I tend to agree, although I think the learning curve there for someone like Westburg would be pretty small.