Phillies Teaching Us A Lesson

[LA2]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

They aren’t the most efficient spenders, with Castellanos ($20 mm) and Gregorius ($15 mm) on their payroll.  But they got decent value from Harper ($27.5 mm), Wheeler ($26 mm), Realmuto ($23.9 mm), Schwarber ($19 mm), Nola ($15 mm) and Segura ($14.9 mm).   That’s almost $151 mm for those 8 players.  

Gulp--another reason why they're not a viable model for the Orioles.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Gulp--another reason why they're not a viable model for the Orioles.

The Orioles should be capable of spending $130 - $150 mm on a regular basis.  I don’t expect them to jump to that level in one offseason, but in 3-5 years, I’d expect it.  

[Redskins Rick]

15 hours ago, Frobby said:

They aren’t the most efficient spenders, with Castellanos ($20 mm) and Gregorius ($15 mm) on their payroll.  But they got decent value from Harper ($27.5 mm), Wheeler ($26 mm), Realmuto ($23.9 mm), Schwarber ($19 mm), Nola ($15 mm) and Segura ($14.9 mm).   That’s almost $151 mm for those 8 players.  

agreed, they did get some value from some of their spending.

Instead of sitting back and not spending and playing small money ball.

I will never advocate big market spending and buying teams.

However, not in agreement that you just draft and dumpster dive.

 

[Frobby]

55 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

agreed, they did get some value from some of their spending.

Instead of sitting back and not spending and playing small money ball.

I will never advocate big market spending and buying teams.

However, not in agreement that you just draft and dumpster dive.

 

The Phillies were in a very different spot than the Orioles.  They never sunk anywhere near as low as the Orioles got in 2018, a season in which they expected to be competitive and ended up winning 47 games.  The O’s absolutely did the right thing given their pathetic situation.  The Phillies did cut their payroll from $176 mm to $85 mm, before building it back up significantly beginning in 2019.   

[Redskins Rick]

On 10/28/2022 at 9:01 AM, Frobby said:

The Phillies were in a very different spot than the Orioles.  They never sunk anywhere near as low as the Orioles got in 2018, a season in which they expected to be competitive and ended up winning 47 games.  The O’s absolutely did the right thing given their pathetic situation.  The Phillies did cut their payroll from $176 mm to $85 mm, before building it back up significantly beginning in 2019.   

The Orioles did do the right thing and slashed payroll, no reason to pay for losing, like they was.

However, their rebuild has been at a snails pace, leaving some of us to wonder, how serious they are.

 

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Redskins Rick said:

The Orioles did do the right thing and slashed payroll, no reason to pay for losing, like they was.

However, their rebuild has been at a snails pace, leaving some of us to wonder, how serious they are.

 

I’m not one of the people who wonders about that.  The team is well set up to contend for the next 5+ years now.  I don’t agree with every move but I’m completely satisfied with how the rebuild has been conducted to this point.  

[Redskins Rick]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not one of the people who wonders about that.  The team is well set up to contend for the next 5+ years now.  I don’t agree with every move but I’m completely satisfied with how the rebuild has been conducted to this point.  

You are probably right.

I dont think any fan would be in agreement with every move on any team.

This off-season for me, will be a key factor in my opinion of Elias and his "rebuild".

 

[JR Oriole]

Fans are wired differently and some are more patient than others.  I am definitely on the "less patient" side of things, but if anything I am envious of those who naturally have more patience....it is a great trait.  I don't think the rebuild has gone particularly slow as far as rebuilds go and given the starting point. What has made it hard for me is the rebuild on top of the relative lack of success from 1984 on. This is a franchise that has won 3 LCS games in the last 39 years, which is so bad it looks like a misprint. The current regime should not bear the burden of previous regimes, but for me at least, it is hard to separate. I worry about whether we will spend or not and I am most definitely jealous of the Philly fan who has the '08 title, the '09 NL pennant, and at the very least the '22 NL pennant. At the end of the day, I don't care much about the payroll because it isn't my money. I care the most about wins....enough to get them to October and then enough to hoist a flag.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, JR Oriole said:

Fans are wired differently and some are more patient than others.  I am definitely on the "less patient" side of things, but if anything I am envious of those who naturally have more patience....it is a great trait.  I don't think the rebuild has gone particularly slow as far as rebuilds go and given the starting point. What has made it hard for me is the rebuild on top of the relative lack of success from 1984 on. This is a franchise that has won 3 LCS games in the last 39 years, which is so bad it looks like a misprint. The current regime should not bear the burden of previous regimes, but for me at least, it is hard to separate. I worry about whether we will spend or not and I am most definitely jealous of the Philly fan who has the '08 title, the '09 NL pennant, and at the very least the '22 NL pennant. At the end of the day, I don't care much about the payroll because it isn't my money. I care the most about wins....enough to get them to October and then enough to hoist a flag.

See, I’m less worried about how long the rebuild takes than about how successful and sustained the rebuild is.  Let’s say that in 2-3 years you can build a quasi-contending team that will last 5 years before the next rebuild has to start.   On the other hand, let’s say that in 5 years you can build a team that’s poised to compete for at least a decade and can be a legit WS contender year in and year out.   For me, I’ll wait the five years and have a sustained, long term contender.   

So the current O’s aren’t necessarily either of these things.  They’ll have to prove what they are.   But at the end of the day, I’m going to judge Elias on how good a team he builds, and how long the success is sustained, not how long it took to get there.   
 

[Just Regular]

I had forgotten Middleton's "a little stupid" comment from around the time Elias was hired.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/34897273/mlb-playoffs-how-phillies-constructed-world-series-roster

Back in November of 2018, John Middleton, principal owner of the Phillies, announced the team was ready to spend big money in free agency, "and maybe even be a little stupid about it." The franchise had just suffered its seventh consecutive non-winning campaign. His comment wasn't about being reckless; it was about taking some bold initiatives.

Paying the best players a going rate is one way to accumulate Wins.

[Moose Milligan]

I've got nothing to add except that I hate all Philadelphia teams and their fans.

Pretty cool town, though.