Elias on MLB network 1230-ish

[interloper]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You do realize that it WASN'T DUE TO THE PREVIOUS DIMENSIONS, at least not mostly.

It was due to a combination of the dimensions, the Orioles being cheap, the Orioles being bad, the Orioles playing in the AL East and the Orioles having super stringent physicals with a reputation for wanting to change deals after the physical.

Do you really think the left field wall was the major reason folks said no thanks?

Not as if the O's haven't signed guys on one year deals anyway.

It's excuse making.

It's incredible how much you guys don't understand what's going on.

He's saying that pitchers who would otherwise take a 1 year deal somewhere in hopes of putting up good numbers and securing a better deal next offseason would not want to come here due to the fact that it's likely their numbers will inflate in Camden Yards.

That takes off the board a whole chunk of possible free agents - any pitchers looking for a rebound, older guys, guys wanting to protect their stats, etc. 

Therefore, if the O's wanted to sign a pitcher, they would have to overpay and overextend like they did with Ubaldo and others. Or they would simply have to throw a bunch of AAAA guys to the wolves because they can't even get an innings eater like Lyles. 

All Elias is saying is that it's now easier to be competitive in signing pitchers, particularly for 1 year deals, because those pitchers are no longer scared of pitching here. By extension, it would also apply to multi-year deals, but that's more about whether or not the team is competitive moreso than the dimensions. 

He never once said it was his express plan to ONLY target 1 year deals. Obviously for guys like Gibson  and Lyles the single year makes sense. But the fact that they are actively holding Zooms with guys that command multiple years, and has confirmed that he has offers to some of those players should tell you they are trying to get guys here for more than 1 year. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by interloper

[interloper]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

And you went beyond the rules of the board here. You talk about reading, you might need to reread them.

Im going to take the high road and toss you in the penalty box, because you are unable to have a discussion without becoming disagreeable and attacking others.

 

Apologies for the comment and I edited it to remove it. 

But wow man. 

Read the explanation I posted to Corn. Please understand that you are totally misrepresenting what Elias said. You've left out critical facts that distort the truth entirely. You need to do better. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by interloper

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

It's incredible how much you guys don't understand what's going on.

He's saying that pitchers who would otherwise take a 1 year deal somewhere in hopes of putting up good numbers and securing a better deal next offseason would not want to come here due to the fact that it's likely their numbers will inflate in Camden Yards.

That takes off the board a whole chunk of possible free agents - any pitchers looking for a rebound, older guys, guys wanting to protect their stats, etc. 

Therefore, if the O's wanted to sign a pitcher, they would have to overpay and overextend like they did with Ubaldo and others. 

All Elias is saying is that it's now easier to be competitive in signing pitchers, particularly for 1 year deals, because those pitchers are no longer scared of pitching here. By extension, it would also apply to multi-year deals, but that's more about whether or not the team is competitive moreso than the dimensions. 

And for the most part that's BS.

Not only for the reasons I've already stated but any player with an agent who is earning his commission should be able to sell his player on the fact that teams can account for the impact of the stadium.  Teams aren't stupid, they know that a guys counting numbers won't look the same in a bandbox and a pitcher's park.

 

[Moose Milligan]

Ooooo, it's getting spicy here!

[interloper]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

And for the most part that's BS.

Not only for the reasons I've already stated but any player with an agent who is earning his commission should be able to sell his player on the fact that teams can account for the impact of the stadium.  Teams aren't stupid, they know that a guys counting numbers won't look the same in a bandbox and a pitcher's park.

 

I don't understand what this means exactly. 

Players knew the reputation of Camden Yards. If a pitcher is worried about his numbers in that park, he's telling his agent no on that park. 

[SteveA]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Ooooo, it's getting spicy here!

And all the while Corn is edging closer and closer to the historic 100,000 post mark.

Between that an the annual Rule 5 Day, it's quite an exciting day here in Hangout-land.

[interloper]

The new dimensions are the difference between signing a guy like Lyles or Gibson and MacPhail having to TRADE (TRADE! AND THEN PAY $9 MILLION ALSO!) for a guy like Kevin Millwood just to get someone to throw innings during a rebuild. 

Obviously when the team is better, as it is now, you hope to not have to rely on 1-year deals. You hope to land a guy like Rodon or Bassitt. And it sounds like Elias has been aggressive about trying. Hopefully we're offering the money to entice them. There's nothing to say one way or the other yet if we are. There are a ton of really good teams looking for pitching and the players aren't all going to say "sure sign me up for the Orioles" after one .500+ season. We already saw Trea Turner take less money to go to the WS Phillies. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by interloper

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

I don't understand what this means exactly. 

Players knew the reputation of Camden Yards. If a pitcher is worried about his numbers in that park, he's telling his agent no on that park. 

And the agent should be able to go, hey, they know your numbers are going to be different pitching there.  It won't hurt your next contract.

All it will hurt is your ego.

You've seen Will it dong right?  An agent with the right software can probably in under a minute calculate how a pitcher's numbers would look in any park.  Teams can do it to.

That's why guys that put up huge numbers in the PCL aren't dominating the prospect lists.

[interloper]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

And the agent should be able to go, hey, they know your numbers are going to be different pitching there.  It won't hurt your next contract.

All it will hurt is your ego.

You've seen Will it dong right?  An agent with the right software can probably in under a minute calculate how a pitcher's numbers would look in any park.  Teams can do it to.

That's why guys that put up huge numbers in the PCL aren't dominating the prospect lists.

Lol. Wild, man. WILD.

As if a pitcher would actively choose to have his ego hurt for a year if he can go elsewhere and have it not hurt. If he's at that point where he's not in the position to choose, then he's a minor league signing. 

[LTO's]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And for the most part that's BS.

What is your evidence that it's mostly BS? That seems like a wild assertion especially after a pitcher the O's just signed specifically mentioned the park factors as a main reason why he turned down an identical deal. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, SteveA said:

And all the while Corn is edging closer and closer to the historic 100,000 post mark.

Between that an the annual Rule 5 Day, it's quite an exciting day here in Hangout-land.

Surprised me that anyone is paying attention.  I hadn't noticed.  Too busy posting I guess.

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Ooooo, it's getting spicy here!

I hate when that happens!

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LTO's said:

What is your evidence that it's mostly BS? That seems like a wild assertion especially after a pitcher the O's just signed specifically mentioned the park factors as a main reason why he turned down an identical deal. 

Oh, I'm supposed to prove a negative?

I already did anyway.  The O's have signed guys to one year make good deals, a pretty fair number of them.

The O's also have had all those other issues I mentioned.

You think all that other stuff isn't an issue? 

Raising the wall up as some sort of bogeyman isn't accurate.  Pitchers have had lots of reasons to avoid the Orioles.

[OriolesMagic83]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Surprised me that anyone is paying attention.  I hadn't noticed.  Too busy posting I guess.

Time to start planning the 100k post party. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, OriolesMagic83 said:

Time to start planning the 100k post party. 

I'm good thanks.

Considering the other members of the club.