Orioles sign Adam Frazier

[waroriole]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

 

Lol at this line. He’s a good little solider. 
 

increasing their offseason spending on the major league roster to $18 million.

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Lol at this line. He’s a good little solider. 
 

increasing their offseason spending on the major league roster to $18 million.

Biggest takeaway to me is when he speculates about the roster. Who will be on the team or not. 
 

Yeah. You can word things however you desire. 

[Bemorewins]

6 hours ago, maybenxtyr said:

For anyone keeping track of "lift off"...

 

New York Yankees: $645,000,000 in commitments so far.

Baltimore Orioles: $18,000,000 so far.

 

Now, I understand that Baltimore will never spend like that but putting those numbers down like that is just astonishing to me. It's hard to take baseball seriously when there's discrepancies in what one team can spend compared to others.

The Orioles have much more that they could spend (look at the small market Padres for example) the just chose not to spend. It's not the Yankees fault for trying to do whatever they can to win. It's Orioles fault for not doing better.

As was mentioned by another poster, if anybody believes that the Orioles only had $18 million to spend after receiving upwards of $300 million in this offseason alone; then let's talk offline about a wonderful timeshare opportunity that I may have for you...lol #joke

[waroriole]

Just now, eddie83 said:

Biggest takeaway to me is when he speculates about the roster. Who will be on the team or not. 
 

Yeah. You can word things however you desire. 

Nothing surprising. Westburg has a chance, and Vavra is only getting lip service as an option. 

[eddie83]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

I like the Frazier signing.   Looks like a good veteran left-handed bat at 2B/LF/RF.   I don't see that it will cause a trade.  It may allow one but it does not require one.  Here are the 13 position players:

1. Mountcastle   1B/DH

2. Frazier  2B/LF/RF

3. Mateo SS

4. Gunnar  3B/SS

5. Hays LF/RF

6. Mullins CF

7. Stowers RF/DH/LF

8. Santander  DH/ RF/LF

9. Adley   C/DH

10.  Urias  2B/3B

11.  McKenna  CF/RF/LF

12.  Westburg  2B/1B/DH

13.  BC Catcher TBD

It pushes Vavra to AAA.  Its allows more time for Ortiz and Cowser to develop.   Norby is not a major league 2B.  He is a bat.  Maybe just a DH but time will tell.

Frazier is  a platoon guy vs righties with a career .343 OBP vs righties.   Urias career OBP vs righties is .349.   So either can play 2B.   If will be interesting to see how often Hyde plays Urias at 3B and Gunnar at SS to increase offense.

Frazier also fits well in LF.  Hays career OBP vs righties is .306.   Hays has more power and plays well when healthy but does not play well when playing hurt.   Frazier is a better back up LFer until Cowser is ready.

Frazier and Gibson on one year deals are both trade candidates at the deadline.   When Cowser and Ortiz may be ready if not before.

I have seen Frazier referenced to as slow in this thread.  I would like to hear more about why Frazier is slow.  I have not picked that up otherwise so far.

I don't think spending on Frazier will stop Elias from acquiring another SP.  And if Frazier is traded at the deadline he will have cost about 5.6M this season.

Both Frazier and Urias had down offensive years in 2022.  Having both hedges the O's bet that one of them returns to form.  Urias sold out his averages for power.   I don't know what Elias thinks about that.

 

His sprint speed last year was at 37. Below average. Have to watch him play the OF to see how he handles it and running bases. 
 

I had a hunch going into the off-season Elias would move one of the regulars in a deal and tweak the lineup some. It appears I was wrong. Obviously he can move Mateo/Urias easier now if he chooses. At the end of the day if he wasn’t willing to trade anyone that left him with the following. 
 

LOCKS- Adley, backup C, Mountcastle, Urias, Mateo, Gunnar, Hays, Mullins, Santander, Stowers, McKenna. (11)

With Urias and Gunnar he does not need the traditional utility INF as much. So that left going into the winter 2 spots to fill. Internally you have Westburg and Vavra. 
 

Question now became what happens with the last two spots. If he goes with Vavra and Westburg then he adds nobody to the MLB roster. He signs Frazier which is one spot. Now there is one spot left. So it’s either Westburg or Vavra. My guess is Vavra still has a good chance to make it. 
 

Then again it’s also possible one of the AAAA players makes the team instead of Vavra. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by eddie83

[eddie83]

26 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Nothing surprising. Westburg has a chance, and Vavra is only getting lip service as an option. 

Thing is if both of them are on team and he adds nobody then he makes zero additions to the position players on the roster. It’s just the AAAA bats he has already added.  

 

The thing I don’t get about the complaining is the $8M. If he hands Westburg the job and makes Urias more of a bench player type then he literally spends nothing to help the bats and has less depth. He now has more options to get thru the season and can use Frazier in multiple roles as it goes on. 
 

The money is peanuts. If you don’t like the move, ok. The money though is nothing. Adding this with Gibson’s deal and saying it’s $18M and we could have spent it on an arm is not how things work. This move is irrelevant to adding a better SP or not. If things were “fair” Adley and Gunnar aren’t making the minimum next year. The $8M is not much of a resource. It was used to create more options and depth. It impacted nothing else. Gunnar, Urias. RM are all pre arb. Mullins, Hays, Mateo and Santander all in arb but that’s it.  Frazier is $8M, the backup C will not be much. Add McKenna, Stowers and Adley to pre arb. That’s 6 pre arb, 4 arbitration with Frazier, the backup C and another spot which will likely be another pre arb like Vavra. 
 

If you wish they did something else that’s fine. The money is meaningless. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by eddie83

[eddie83]

23 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

The Orioles have much more that they could spend (look at the small market Padres for example) the just chose not to spend. It's not the Yankees fault for trying to do whatever they can to win. It's Orioles fault for not doing better.

As was mentioned by another poster, if anybody believes that the Orioles only had $18 million to spend after receiving upwards of $300 million in this offseason alone; then let's talk offline about a wonderful timeshare opportunity that I may have for you...lol #joke

If they give second base to Westburg and keep Vavra they are spending nothing on hitters. 

[Daddy-O's]

It seems to me that they have thrown in the towel on 2023. They have not signed one piece that makes them more competitive then they already are. That they must feel they will not be ready to compete until 2024, once Grayson  gets major league experience and Means is back.  Signing placeholders allows them to manipulate the clocks of several players and give them a slower introduction to the major leagues.  A number of people applauded last year, saying Elias is sticking to his plan.  I think this is more of the same, and it stinks.

[Orioles4Life21]

8 hours ago, Frobby said:

How he wasn’t fired at the end of last season is a mystery to me.   Or now.  He’s awful.  

Don’t get me started

[orioles119]

57 minutes ago, Daddy-O's said:

It seems to me that they have thrown in the towel on 2023. They have not signed one piece that makes them more competitive then they already are. That they must feel they will not be ready to compete until 2024, once Grayson  gets major league experience and Means is back.  Signing placeholders allows them to manipulate the clocks of several players and give them a slower introduction to the major leagues.  A number of people applauded last year, saying Elias is sticking to his plan.  I think this is more of the same, and it stinks.

[orioles119]

58 minutes ago, Daddy-O's said:

It seems to me that they have thrown in the towel on 2023. They have not signed one piece that makes them more competitive then they already are. That they must feel they will not be ready to compete until 2024, once Grayson  gets major league experience and Means is back.  Signing placeholders allows them to manipulate the clocks of several players and give them a slower introduction to the major leagues.  A number of people applauded last year, saying Elias is sticking to his plan.  I think this is more of the same, and it stinks.

So, sticking to his plan is now suddenly a bad thing?

[ChosenOne21]

1 hour ago, Daddy-O's said:

It seems to me that they have thrown in the towel on 2023. They have not signed one piece that makes them more competitive then they already are. That they must feel they will not be ready to compete until 2024, once Grayson  gets major league experience and Means is back.  Signing placeholders allows them to manipulate the clocks of several players and give them a slower introduction to the major leagues.  A number of people applauded last year, saying Elias is sticking to his plan.  I think this is more of the same, and it stinks.

I think full seasons from Gunnar and Adley plus adding Grayson to the rotation gives us a really good chance to be better than we were last year. Is it enough? Maybe

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

If they give second base to Westburg and keep Vavra they are spending nothing on hitters. 

That would have been fine for most people. Buy some pitching.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

The Orioles have much more that they could spend (look at the small market Padres for example) the just chose not to spend. 

The Padres may be losing money at present.  Forbes had them at an operating loss of $32 mm for 2021.   Honestly I don’t expect the Orioles to ever do that.  They did have small operating losses (per Forbes) back when their payroll was in the $150 - $160 mm range.  

[DrinkinWithFermi]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

LOCKS- Adley, backup C, Mountcastle, Urias, Mateo, Gunnar, Hays, Mullins, Santander, Stowers, McKenna. (11)

I think it's premature to call Stowers a lock for the opening day roster. It would not surprise me in the slightest if they go with Mazara over him after Elias made a point of calling him a platoon option for the 2023 Orioles.

7 minutes ago, orioles119 said:

So, sticking to his plan is now suddenly a bad thing?

It is if it means intentionally punting a year of Adley, Gunnar, and Grayson, which currently appears to be the case.