Orioles sign Adam Frazier

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Upon further thought, Frazier does make sense as the O's utility infielder next year.  He hits left handed, he can play good defense at multiple positions, and he can probably bounce back as a hitter somewhat.   Urias, Westburg, Mateo and Ortiz all hit right handed, so there will be platoon at bats available for Frazier no matter who is playing at 2B and SS.  

The downsides to the move are (1) $8M is too much to pay for a utility player, which means that (2) there is a risk that he will wind up being more of a regular 2B and blocking a better player.    

It is definitely even more urgent than before that the O's trade one or more (preferably more) of Westburg/Ortiz/Urias/Mateo.  

That and he's left handed.  If he ends up in a platoon he'll get the majority of the at bats.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

It sort of seems like Elias wants one more season to let things sort themselves out.  
 

Maybe he should have been taking advantage of those non-competitive season to work on that?

[eddie83]

9 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I've been pretty interested in Conforto, but today saw Boras tweet he's looking for 2-year deal with opt out.     Conforto's probably going to be okay and go back on the market, but like that sweet sweet Correa pillow, sounds like Boras hoping to guarantee ~16 * 2 just in case he really can't play anymore.

Ok. Did not see that. 

[eddie83]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He'd be coming from Norfolk.

Good point!!!

[eddie83]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The prospect that had a .960 OPS at AA and a 1.123 OPS at AAA. He’d play for the minimum and probably out produce Frazier for the MLB minimum.

He had 42 PA’s. For crying out loud. 

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

The prospect that had a .960 OPS at AA and a 1.123 OPS at AAA. He’d play for the minimum and probably out produce Frazier for the MLB minimum.

I like Norby, but (1) he’s played all of 9 games in AAA, and (2) nobody’s raving about his defense at 2B.  I think he’s got a good shot to reach the majors in 2023, but it won’t be until midseason or later.   

[now]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My question is, if the O’s win 88 games next year and make the playoffs, while Frazier and Gibson have decent but unspectacular seasons (better than Odor and Lyles in 2022 but just sort of averagish), are people going to be unhappy, saying we could have done even better?   Or will they say, “that was solid progress?”   My guess is, opinion will be split if that’s the case.   

It sort of seems like Elias wants one more season to let things sort themselves out.  
 

Here's a related question: Last year the O's missed the playoffs by 3 games. Just as a starting point, is it reasonable to assume that Gibson/Frazier will net 3 extra wins compared to Lyles/Odor?

 

[Bahama O's Fan]

Yawn

[Slight Upward Arc]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My question is, if the O’s win 88 games next year and make the playoffs, while Frazier and Gibson have decent but unspectacular seasons (better than Odor and Lyles in 2022 but just sort of averagish), are people going to be unhappy, saying we could have done even better?   Or will they say, “that was solid progress?”   My guess is, opinion will be split if that’s the case.   

It sort of seems like Elias wants one more season to let things sort themselves out.  
 

Why should the opinion be split? Why wouldn’t people have wanted an attempt to put this team in better position? I don’t understand the question, to be honest. 

[Three Run Homer]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That and he's left handed.  If he ends up in a platoon he'll get the majority of the at bats.

Right, you don't want him in a strict platoon with (say) Westburg at 2B.  You want Westburg to get most of the at bats.  But Frazier can spell Westburg against some righties, and also can get platoon at bats at other positions. 

That is, assuming that he can play SS and 3B.  Now that I look at his BB-Ref page, he's played very little SS in his career (4 games there last year) and hasn't played any 3B in many years.   He has played quite a bit of LF.   It doesn't look like he's ever played 1B.  

If he only plays 2B and LF then you still need to carry another utility player who can cover SS and 3B (and 3B)  Which makes the Frazier signing harder to justify.  

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, now said:

Here's a related question: Last year the O's missed the playoffs by 3 games. Just as a starting point, is it reasonable to assume that Gibson/Frazier will net 3 extra wins compared to Lyles/Odor?

 

Hard to say.  Depends on whether you believe any of these players are better than their 2022 performances.   But I’d say no, these moves alone will not net is three more wins, considering that last year’s team outperformed its Pythagorean record by four wins.  

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Right, you don't want him in a strict platoon with (say) Westburg at 2B.  You want Westburg to get most of the at bats.  But Frazier can spell Westburg against some righties, and also can get platoon at bats at other positions. 

That is, assuming that he can play SS and 3B.  Now that I look at his BB-Ref page, he's played very little SS in his career (4 games there last year) and hasn't played any 3B in many years.   He has played quite a bit of LF.   It doesn't look like he's ever played 1B.  

If he only plays 2B and LF then you still need to carry another utility player who can cover SS and 3B (and 3B)  Which makes the Frazier signing harder to justify.  

No you don’t. Gunnar can play either spot. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

The most entertaining thing about this off-season is watching the degree that some of you are willing to twist yourself up like pretzels to defend the bizarro moves being made by the team. Keep it coming! This is cathartic comedy  

It does amaze me as well. 

Some people just refuse to criticize head scratching moves because it goes against their "devotion" to Elias. 

Me, I call every move as I see it and I'm not going to hold back when he does things that just make zero sense. It was like signing a terrible defensive back up catcher to the 40-man so he couldn't become a free agent? 

There are just so many questions when you make ridiculous moves like that, including questioning the analysis that goes into thinking these players are worth the time and or price tag.

Odor, Aguilar, the fascination with AAAA back up catchers, and now an $8 million signing of a 31 year old second baseman with battle of the barrel EVs and barrel percentages. 

Hell, I was fine with the Gibson signing as long as it was partnered with the acquisition of a #1-#2 type but I'm not fine with adding in Wacha with him.

There is just so much head scratching in this offseason that it has really, really taken off the shine from Elias for me unless he can pull off some trades that make this all make sense.

Right now I agree with the poster that says it looks like he's trying to make sure the floor isn't too low vs trying to really make the team a contender going into the season.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, now said:

Here's a related question: Last year the O's missed the playoffs by 3 games. Just as a starting point, is it reasonable to assume that Gibson/Frazier will net 3 extra wins compared to Lyles/Odor?

 

I wouldn't assume it.

Let's go as simple as possible, rWAR for last season.

Odor- -.4

Lyles- 1.0

Gibson- .7

Frazier- .9

I'm seeing 1.6 on one side and .6 on the other.

Now that's pretty meaningless but no, I wouldn't just assume a 3 game improvement.

[Pickles]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea it’s still a terrible move.

To continue devil's advocacy: What if it leads to a trade you like?