John Angelos chews out Dan Connolly

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

 

 

John is busy in court. Looks like Lou lost Game 1. Just not sure if it’s a 3/5/7 game series. 

This could well be the death knell of the law firm, at least as structured currently. Once clients sense a law firm is in trouble, they abandon it.   As do the lawyers who are capable of generating their own business.   

Speaking as a lawyer, I see this result as unsurprising, and not really related legally to the Orioles.   If a law firm has one partner, and that partner is legally incompetent, how can that firm continue to exist in that structure?  It can’t.   Partners have a duty to supervise the lawyers in their firm, and Peter can’t do that.  Lawyers literally have an ethical duty of competence, which Peter can’t fulfill.   Georgia probably has authority to sell the Firm to another lawyer or group of lawyers, but neither she nor John, as non-lawyers, are legally able to own or manage it.   So, a conservator makes sense, and I’d imagine a sale will take place soon if the firm has any chance of survival.   
 

[Going Underground]

34 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

 

Dan has alot of nerve bringing this up on National Spouses Day. 

[eddie83]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

This could well be the death knell of the law firm, at least as structured currently. Once clients sense a law firm is in trouble, they abandon it.   As do the lawyers who are capable of generating their own business.   

Speaking as a lawyer, I see this result as unsurprising, and not really related legally to the Orioles.   If a law firm has one partner, and that partner is legally incompetent, how can that firm continue to exist in that structure?  It can’t.   Partners have a duty to supervise the lawyers in their firm, and Peter can’t do that.  Lawyers literally have an ethical duty of competence, which Peter can’t fulfill.   Georgia probably has authority to sell the Firm to another lawyer or group of lawyers, but neither she nor John, as non-lawyers, are legally able to own or manage it.   So, a conservator makes sense, and I’d imagine a sale will take place soon if the firm has any chance of survival.   
 

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/orioles-mlb/conservator-law-offices-peter-g-angelos-HSGB3DTXZRDVHLWLMCOFTF5MQY/

[Frobby]

Also this:

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/orioles-mlb/west-moore-tom-kelso-orioles-lease-maryland-stadium-authority-43EGWC4YZ5GIVBQRX47WV3D6JY/

[spiritof66]

Do these kids -- and I realize they're 50-plus, but they act like children -- have any sense at all? What was Lou's argument for saying that a law firm formed and owned by a very successful lawyer now unable to practice should be deemed to be owned by an unsuccessful, inexperienced lawyer because he's the son of the other guy? Crazy.

It doesn't really matter to the Orioles who owns the law firm. Today's ruling confirms what had become obvious: the gravy train whose earnings enabled Peter Angelos to buy his majority interest in the Orioles and to which he could look for additional funding if needed by the Orioles has gone off the tracks, or has been demolished in a collision with reality, or has gone to into the shed permanently, or is to be demolished for scrap, or whatever. The Angeloses have no substantial resources to pay hundreds of millions in estate or income taxes other than their share of profits that the Orioles generate and distribute.

[HakunaSakata]

5 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Dan has alot of nerve bringing this up on National Spouses Day. 

it's also National Peanut Brittle Day, which makes it even more egregious. 

[AnythingO's]

Spiritof66, I share your passion and anger but they apparently have a significant real estate portfolio as well, so that MIGHT allay some of the tax burden. Then there is the possible transfer to Georgia to postpone things as she is much younger than PA. JA may sell a portion but still maintain control, scary, maddening, but possible.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Spiritof66, I share your passion and anger but they apparently have a significant real estate portfolio as well, so that MIGHT allay some of the tax burden. Then there is the possible transfer to Georgia to postpone things as she is much younger than PA. JA may sell a portion but still maintain control, scary, maddening, but possible.

I wonder who would put big money into this situation?

[spiritof66]

58 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Spiritof66, I share your passion and anger but they apparently have a significant real estate portfolio as well, so that MIGHT allay some of the tax burden. Then there is the possible transfer to Georgia to postpone things as she is much younger than PA. JA may sell a portion but still maintain control, scary, maddening, but possible.

It's pretty clear -- not completely clear, but pretty clear -- that Peter directed that half of his interest in the Orioles be left to each of his sons, and not to his wife. Under that arrangement, John will own something like 35 to 40 percent on Peter's death, so he wouldn't be in a position to sell much. To run the team, he'd probably need to buy out some of the limited partners -- another cost to his maintaining the team. That's consistent with what Lou claims was Peter's intent: that the team be sold upon his death rather than have Angelos ownership continue to the next generation. I believe that's what Peter intended. He knew his sons were people of limited competence. In fact, they fit the pattern that Peter years ago used in describing other team owners -- wealthy sons of wealthy parents who hadn't earned their wealth or accomplished much on their own. 

If that's right, and if Georgia were to changes Peter's bequest to cut out Lou and give all of Peter's interest in the team to John, there will be lawsuits over her authority to do that. In the  event that Peter dies before that litigation concludes, the other team owners will be asked to approve new ownership of the Orioles without really knowing who the new owner or owners will be or what kind of assets they'll ultimately have.

If Peter were to leave his interest in the team (or part of his interest)) to Georgia, the Orioles would be in the same pickle they're now in: selling the team during her lifetime would lead to both a capital gains tax on the sale and estate taxes at the time of her death, substantially delaying or increasing the tax bite (or both)  on the greedy little Angelos boys' payday. 

You're right about the Angelos real estate assets, which are largely unknown, being a source to pay estate taxes. There's a list in Lou's complaint (paragraph 165) of thirteen real estate parcels transferred from Peter to a trust for John. Lou's complaint says this real estate is worth over $90 million. I don't know whether that's some, most or all of Peter's real estate., and have no idea what it's worth. I assume some of that value will not be available to pay estate taxes because the assets or sale proceeds will go to Georgia or to charities. But whatever Peter's real estate and other non-Orioles assets are worth, upon a transfer of them to to John, whether during Peter's life or upon his death, half of that value will disappear in estate taxes.

I think it will be impossible for John (or John and Lou, if they reconcile) to continue to operate the Orioles after Peter's death and the payment of estate taxes, but I could be wrong. But does anyone think MLB would approve such financially shaky and litigation-prone ownership, potentially lasting 30 years or so, by boobs who've never accomplished anything in baseball or in business (toss in law, too)? If one or ore Angeloses want to own the Orioles after Peter, MLB will go over the team's and the hew owner's finances closely, and it will be for real: that's a meeting John and someone who knows what he or she is talking about had better show up for.

[Es4M11]

20 hours ago, Frobby said:

This could well be the death knell of the law firm, at least as structured currently. Once clients sense a law firm is in trouble, they abandon it.   As do the lawyers who are capable of generating their own business.   

Speaking as a lawyer, I see this result as unsurprising, and not really related legally to the Orioles.   If a law firm has one partner, and that partner is legally incompetent, how can that firm continue to exist in that structure?  It can’t.   Partners have a duty to supervise the lawyers in their firm, and Peter can’t do that.  Lawyers literally have an ethical duty of competence, which Peter can’t fulfill.   Georgia probably has authority to sell the Firm to another lawyer or group of lawyers, but neither she nor John, as non-lawyers, are legally able to own or manage it.   So, a conservator makes sense, and I’d imagine a sale will take place soon if the firm has any chance of survival.   
 

I'm left to wonder why the family would want to invalidate this transfer. At face value it seems the responsible thing for Lou to do is to transfer it to his name and stewardship. Why would Georgia and John want control moved to a conservator, someone outside of the family? Lou claims that those two are trying to cut him out, what other motive would Georgia and John have to oppose Lou taking over the law firm?

Any chance you could offer your opinion on these questions?

[Going Underground]

From the Baltimore Sun:

On Thursday afternoon, an Orioles spokesperson said there was no update about a possible meeting between John Angelos and reporters this week. Asked whether she or Angelos could provide an on-the-record comment as to  why not,she declined. 

 

 

Although Angelos said last week that his family owns 70% of the team, the number of Orioles stakeholders extends beyond them and the rest of the team’s partnership group, especially as the state continues to invest more and more public funds toward incentivizing the team to stay in Baltimore. The question that sparked Angelos’ lecture and offer to return to the ballpark did not directly mention the ongoing legal dispute pitting him and his mother, Georgia, against his brother, Louis, over the assets belonging to his ailing father, Orioles principal owner Peter Angelos. John Angelos briefly spoke with some reporters Thursday as he left Baltimore County Circuit Court following a judge’s ruling that Peter Angelos’ law firm will go into conservatorship, a positive outcome for John Angelos and his mother. When a WJZ reporter asked John Angelos whether media could expect an invitation this week, he  laughed. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Going Underground

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

From the Baltimore Sun:

On Thursday afternoon, an Orioles spokesperson said there was no update about a possible meeting between John Angelos and reporters this week. Asked whether she or Angelos could provide an on-the-record comment as to  why not,she declined. 

 

 

Although Angelos said last week that his family owns 70% of the team, the number of Orioles stakeholders extends beyond them and the rest of the team’s partnership group, especially as the state continues to invest more and more public funds toward incentivizing the team to stay in Baltimore. The question that sparked Angelos’ lecture and offer to return to the ballpark did not directly mention the ongoing legal dispute pitting him and his mother, Georgia, against his brother, Louis, over the assets belonging to his ailing father, Orioles principal owner Peter Angelos. John Angelos briefly spoke with some reporters Thursday as he left Baltimore County Circuit Court following a judge’s ruling that Peter Angelos’ law firm will go into conservatorship, a positive outcome for John Angelos and his mother. When a WJZ reporter asked John Angelos whether media could expect an invitation this week, he  laughed. 

Quote

He laughed.

Of course he did.

 

 

[eddie83]

 Not trying to steer off course but in the latest piece by Connolly he wrote how GM’s under Peter didn’t have a set budget. It was all case by case. This has been discussed before, I am not sure if it was ever written definitively or not. 
 

Just remarkable all the obstacles that ownership placed upon their top baseball executives. No wonder except from 2012-16 did we see anything competitive. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

 Not trying to steer off course but in the latest piece by Connolly he wrote how GM’s under Peter didn’t have a set budget. It was all case by case. This has been discussed before, I am not sure if it was ever written definitively or not. 
 

Just remarkable all the obstacles that ownership placed upon their top baseball executives. No wonder except from 2012-16 did we see anything competitive. 

Well the budget would be a moving target based off of guys he wanted to keep.

He wanted to keep Davis but not Manny. He made sure Jones and Nick were kept. He had his favorites and wanted them here, no matter the cost.

 

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well the budget would be a moving target based off of guys he wanted to keep.

He wanted to keep Davis but not Manny. He made sure Jones and Nick were kept. He had his favorites and wanted them here, no matter the cost.

 

Yeah. I mean it’s just laughable. 
 

How can any executive plan things out? All based on what the owner wants to do. What if DD said let’s take the money for Davis and spend it here? That didn’t happen.