Can the Orioles fix Kyle Bradish's fastball?

[btdart20]

17 minutes ago, interloper said:

Do you get the impression that, under the Elias regime, they remove players for so-called injuries or option them in order to do mid-season development or implement repertoire changes, etc? It kind of feels like that to me, but not sure there's enough sample to really say they do that. Kind of an interesting thought though. Like maybe they get a big enough sample on what Bradish looks like in the majors, see what's not working, give him an injury rest (by midseason you could probably claim soreness or injury on any pitcher) and then implement changes while he rehabs. Then, boom, he's refreshed and armed with new weapons in the second half based on the analytics. 

His game log shows the break in games/IL stint between 6/18 - 7/29.

The first time he threw the sinker was on 9/6.

[interloper]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That seems like the type of shady behavior that could get a team in trouble.

I haven't seen anything in Elias' past that makes me think he'd stoop to anything unethical.

 

Well like I said, I think you could kind of justify any pitcher injury by mid-late season. Every guy is gonna have soreness. Not necessarily saying there's a conspiracy or anything but maybe they see opportunities to kill 2 birds with 1 stone if soreness/mild injury pops up and they have a repertoire change in mind ready to be implemented. Dunno, just jivin'. 

[SemperFi]

15 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm assuming if he wants to get more movement on his 4 seamer, he'll have to alter his grip a little bit, apply different pressure with the fingers, etc.  Easier said than done, though...or else everyone would have a fastball with great movement.

 

True, but throwing strikes altering the grip on a 4 seam as you noted isn't that easy-usually you lose some velocity, that's why I am shocked to see his sinker at 96 mph (don't know what the league average is but that's fast).  I love two seamers, it's what we were taught to throw growing up-control was much better with the beat up balls, I still search for that grip when playing catch.

[Moose Milligan]

12 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

True, but throwing strikes altering the grip on a 4 seam as you noted isn't that easy-usually you lose some velocity, that's why I am shocked to see his sinker at 96 mph (don't know what the league average is but that's fast).  I love two seamers, it's what we were taught to throw growing up-control was much better with the beat up balls, I still search for that grip when playing catch.

If he's having issues with a straight 4 seamer, I'd rather see him try to adopt a 2 seamer, too.  

I always search for a 4 seam grip but I threw a 2 seamer as well.

[Aristotelian]

17 minutes ago, interloper said:

Well like I said, I think you could kind of justify any pitcher injury by mid-late season. Every guy is gonna have soreness. Not necessarily saying there's a conspiracy or anything but maybe they see opportunities to kill 2 birds with 1 stone if soreness/mild injury pops up and they have a repertoire change in mind ready to be implemented. Dunno, just jivin'. 

A fake injury would make sense if Bradish was out of options but he has plenty left. The "two birds/one stone" explanation makes a lot more sense. 

[Tony-OH]

58 minutes ago, interloper said:

Do you get the impression that, under the Elias regime, they remove players for so-called injuries or option them in order to do mid-season development or implement repertoire changes, etc? It kind of feels like that to me, but not sure there's enough sample to really say they do that. Kind of an interesting thought though. Like maybe they get a big enough sample on what Bradish looks like in the majors, see what's not working, give him an injury rest (by midseason you could probably claim soreness or injury on any pitcher) and then implement changes while he rehabs. Then, boom, he's refreshed and armed with new weapons in the second half based on the analytics. 

Yes, that's my impression as well. They will never say this publicly but I think they will use anything so they can work with a player in side sessions.

 

[nvpacchi]

One of my resolutions was to crack down and get better at coding, and funny enough digging into Bradish's arsenal and 2nd half success was the first thing I analyzed.  I hope to post later this week, as there's some obvious sustainable changes (including the one's Tony has mentioned).

One thing I did notice is that Bradish's fastball has purely average ride, and next to no tailing action (it actually cuts a little), basically making it straight as an arrow.  He also doesn't have the velocity to help negate the blandness of it.  His sinker helps to add a little bit of wiggle and should hopefully be a better offering to play off his slider and curve.

Edited February 8, 2023 by nvpacchi

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, nvpacchi said:

One of my resolutions was to crack down and get better at coding, and funny enough digging into Bradish's arsenal and 2nd half success was the first thing I analyzed.  I hope to post later this week, as there's some obvious sustainable changes (including the one's Tony has mentioned).

One thing I did notice is that Bradish's fastball has purely average ride, and next to no tailing action (it actually cuts a little), basically making it straight as an arrow.  He also doesn't have the velocity to help negate the blandness of it.  His sinker helps to add a little bit of wiggle and should hopefully be a better offering to play off his slider and curve.

I'll look forward to your analysis. The one thing too look at pre and post "injury" as well as some games his fastball cut and others it tailed and in some it did both. It eventually evens out to looking dead straight in the data unless you take it game by game, but he typically gets some movement though the cut or tail is rarely more than 4 inches and a lot of times comes out straight without ride and that's the ones that get creamed.

 

[Lurker]

4 hours ago, interloper said:

Do you get the impression that, under the Elias regime, they remove players for so-called injuries or option them in order to do mid-season development or implement repertoire changes, etc? It kind of feels like that to me, but not sure there's enough sample to really say they do that. Kind of an interesting thought though. Like maybe they get a big enough sample on what Bradish looks like in the majors, see what's not working, give him an injury rest (by midseason you could probably claim soreness or injury on any pitcher) and then implement changes while he rehabs. Then, boom, he's refreshed and armed with new weapons in the second half based on the analytics. 

I don’t know about other players injuries, but Bradish was pitching with chronic shoulder soreness for quite awhile before it was noticed and addressed. After treatment and rehab, Bradish pitched his “2nd half” without chronic soreness.

[sportsfan8703]

12 hours ago, Lurker said:

I don’t know about other players injuries, but Bradish was pitching with chronic shoulder soreness for quite awhile before it was noticed and addressed. After treatment and rehab, Bradish pitched his “2nd half” without chronic soreness.

Interesting. It’s also just a case of a pitcher developing. He learned the slider mid season. He threw his FB up in the zone more. Then in September started throwing a sinker. 

[Frobby]

To me, Bradish just looked more confident and willing to challenge hitters as the season progressed.  Obviously the pitch mix and pitch movement data discussed in this thread are very important, and some of the changes may be what led him to be more aggressive.   But by the end of the year I was feeling very good when he was on the mound.   I think he learned a lot about himself and about how to attack hitters.   I’m bullish on him for 2023.   

[nvpacchi]

20 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I'll look forward to your analysis. The one thing too look at pre and post "injury" as well as some games his fastball cut and others it tailed and in some it did both. It eventually evens out to looking dead straight in the data unless you take it game by game, but he typically gets some movement though the cut or tail is rarely more than 4 inches and a lot of times comes out straight without ride and that's the ones that get creamed.

 

I opened in a thread in the general chat, but figured it would get buried

@Tony-OH is there a way to paste photos into our posts?  Nothing stands out in the options, but I could be completely missing it, and I wanna include some graphs for a post I'm compiling in Bradish's improvements.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, nvpacchi said:

I opened in a thread in the general chat, but figured it would get buried

@Tony-OH is there a way to paste photos into our posts?  Nothing stands out in the options, but I could be completely missing it, and I wanna include some graphs for a post I'm compiling in Bradish's improvements.

Absolutely, as a plus member you can post as many pics as you want. At the bottom of your post, look where it asks you if you want to upload an image. Upload it from you computer, click where you want it in your post, then hit insert.

 

[Lurker]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

To me, Bradish just looked more confident and willing to challenge hitters as the season progressed.  Obviously the pitch mix and pitch movement data discussed in this thread are very important, and some of the changes may be what led him to be more aggressive.   But by the end of the year I was feeling very good when he was on the mound.   I think he learned a lot about himself and about how to attack hitters.   I’m bullish on him for 2023.   

I think what you saw was a young pitcher developing his craft and becoming more confident of his tools.

Bradish has worked hard during the winter building himself up physically and experimenting with new grips and pitches. (Which is what all our pitchers likely did.)

I am very excited to see how it all “shakes out” and how our young pitchers will help propel the O’s to the playoffs.