A lot of little moves = a significantly better team?

[El Gordo]

So you don't think there was any team willing to offer a Reimold and Olson quality for Huff??

You don't think there was a team that would have offered a semi top end IF prospect for Sherill?

If that's the case, then it's tough to fault him I guess, I just think it's very naive to think that was the case.

BTW...He could have traded Hoey for Reyes and that is a trade I make in a second.

I find it hard to beleive the Cubs wouldn't deal Pie, Hill, and Cedeno for Scott, given the values of the players the Cubs would be moving. That's a deal that should have been made, or something similar.

And again, he royally screwed up the Tex deal.

If someone offered an Olson for Huff, or a top end IF for Sherrill ,why wouldn't he have taken thoi]se offers, they are exactly what we need SP and IF prospects. It's naive to think that they were offered, or that for some unknown reason AM turned them down. The same about the Cubs deal. But the last statement reveals your true concern. No Tex! waaaaaaaaaa!:rolleyestf:

[Mackus]

IWe don't know what happened. You don't know what was offered. You can't pass judgement.

Yes I can, because we have a good idea of what Sherrill's value was and what other teams needed and would have been willing to move.

A GMs job isn't always to sit back and wait for someone to call and make an offer. When you have a player that is an asset, but you would like to move them, you need to go out and create interest and make sure teams are giving you offers for the player. There is no possible way anybody will convince me that there would not have been pretty substantial interest in Sherrill last deadline if MacPhail had put it out there that he was available and tried to get some offers for him.

MacPhail made a mistake in not capitalizing on the height of Sherrill's value last deadline. I say that without hesitation, it was a poor move, or non-move, on his part. Hopefully Sherrill will have another big first half and he can get back to that level and we can get something more useful to our future in return for him.

[El Gordo]

What, you're not sold on:

1b - Brazell

2b - Turner

ss - Izturis

3b - Snyder

?

Seriously though - I expect us to go after a 1b in free agency in 2010 or 2011. Maybe LaRoche next year or resign Huff to play 1b in 2010 with a move to DH in 2011 and go after one of the big name 1b in 2011.

But at 2b, SS and 3b the cupboard is barren in the free agency market.

I think Turner might work at 2b. I like him quite a bit in fact.

And I think McPhail is totally comfortable with a all glove / no hit guy at SS - so maybe Izturis is the guy for a while.

But 3b - I have no idea what we can do there. Maybe trade BRob and Sherrill for Vitters and call it a day?

Check out FA SS after 2010. Hardy, Reyes, Barmes, Peralta , Rollins, M.Izturis. 1B and 3B not too shabby either. http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency10.php?order=position

[Enjoy Terror]

But I could argue that MacPhail did make offers to other teams but no one wanted to give us anything other than filler. There was, apparently, an offer made (Sherrill didn't clear waivers) and by putting Sherrill through waivers MacPhail was judging the market. MacPhail wasn't sitting on his hands.

[Mackus]

But I could argue that MacPhail did make offers to other teams but no one wanted to give us anything other than filler. There was, apparently, an offer made (Sherrill didn't clear waivers) and by putting Sherrill through waivers MacPhail was judging the market. MacPhail wasn't sitting on his hands.

There obviously was no hope of Sherrill getting through waivers, as he was cheap and effective. The time to move him was in July.

I'm confident in my opinion that MacPhail should have been able to get a team to make an offer worthy of trading Sherrill. He was either holding out for too much, or not working hard enough to draw up interest in other teams. My guess is it was more likely the former than the latter.

[Mackus]

Check out FA SS after 2010. Hardy, Reyes, Barmes, Peralta , Rollins, M.Izturis. 1B and 3B not too shabby either. http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency10.php?order=position

Don't forget the studly SS Cesar Izturis who will also be a free agent after 2010!

[bluedog]

I have high standards for GM's but lower standards as far as trades. If the Dodgers say, I'll give you Dejesus for Huff and 8 million, I do that deal in a second, and my guess is AM wouldn't even consider it because of the money.

That's strange considering that AM did exactly this kind of deal in moving Hernandez!

At the end of the day we moved Hernandez and replaced him with Zaun and acquired Freel, Turner and Waring and saved almost no money in the process as we sent a big chunk of money to the Reds to make the deal happen.

Exactly the kind of trade you're saying AM doesn't do. In fact I'd say that trade was far superior to the kinds of trades you've suggested where all we get back is one prospect who may or may not ever contribute at the ML level.

It seems that you are looking for reasons to be negative about AM and are willing to go so far as to make up trades we don't know were ever actually offered in order to attack his fitness as a GM based on pure speculation.

At least give AM credit for the trades he has made that do fit the model you're proposing.

[RShack]

There is no possible way anybody will convince me that there would not have been pretty substantial interest in Sherrill last deadline if MacPhail had put it out there that he was available and tried to get some offers for him.

How do you know who he talked with and what was said? Face it, you don't.

You don't know what he could have gotten for Huff, or Sherrill, or Mora, or anybody. You just don't.

Now, if you wanna make up stories about that, that's fine. Nothing wrong with folks playing "What if?"

But don't pretend that it's anything more than rumor-based fantasy jello. Because that's all it really is.

[Enjoy Terror]

Well we gave Hernandez and his $8M to the Reds along with $2M cash for Freel, who costs $4M. MacPhail saved $2M by shipping Ramon to the Reds.

[ugen64]

Well we gave Hernandez and his $8M to the Reds along with $2M cash for Freel, who costs $4M. MacPhail saved $2M by shipping Ramon to the Reds.

Yeah but the point is we're paying Zaun most of that $2 million anyway. This deal wasn't done to save money; it was done essentially to funnel useless money (Hernandez's salary) into an area that was at least marginally useful (Freel's salary).

[Mackus]

How do you know who he talked with and what was said? Face it, you don't.

You don't know what he could have gotten for Huff, or Sherrill, or Mora, or anybody. You just don't.

Now, if you wanna make up stories about that, that's fine. Nothing wrong with folks playing "What if?"

But don't pretend that it's anything more than rumor-based fantasy jello. Because that's all it really is.

BS.

I'm judging what we should have been able to get based on the perceived value of Sherrill at the time. If you are too blind to realize that there are things other than just watching what moves actually do happen that can be used to base opinions on, then I don't know what to tell you.

Of course I don't know what the exact offers are. But I do think that MacPhail should have been able to get a reasonable offer for Sherrill and that pulling the trigger at that point in time would have likely been the best time.

I'm not making up stories, or playing "rumor-based fantasy jello" or any other insulting ignorant thing you want to accuse other people of. I'm assessing what value the player had, and criticizing MacPhail for not being able to find someone willing to pay enough to match or come close to that value. Its not an exact science, but its not a complete guess either.

You can be as condescending and insulting as you want, I really dont give a crap, but what I'm doing and what I am basing my opinions on isn't blind speculation.

[Miller192]

How do you know who he talked with and what was said? Face it, you don't.

You don't know what he could have gotten for Huff, or Sherrill, or Mora, or anybody. You just don't.

Now, if you wanna make up stories about that, that's fine. Nothing wrong with folks playing "What if?"

But don't pretend that it's anything more than rumor-based fantasy jello. Because that's all it really is.

You're right, none of us here were sitting in AM's office.....unless Andy is lurking here somewhere.

So because we truly don't know, is it fair to say that we can't assume that Andy worked real hard last season to trade Sherrill and the like? Or that we can't assume Andy has spoken to other GMs about Huff and Sherrill or Mora?

If we can't question the FO because we don't know what the specifics are offered or the details of the phone conversations, than we can't assume he had those conversations correct?

[BaltimoreTerp]

BS.

I'm judging what we should have been able to get based on the perceived value of Sherrill at the time. If you are too blind to realize that there are things other than just watching what moves actually do happen that can be used to base opinions on, then I don't know what to tell you.

Of course I don't know what the exact offers are. But I do think that MacPhail should have been able to get a reasonable offer for Sherrill and that pulling the trigger at that point in time would have likely been the best time.

I'm not making up stories, or playing "rumor-based fantasy jello" or any other insulting ignorant thing you want to accuse other people of. I'm assessing what value the player had, and criticizing MacPhail for not being able to find someone willing to pay enough to match or come close to that value. Its not an exact science, but its not a complete guess either.

You can be as condescending and insulting as you want, I really dont give a crap, but what I'm doing and what I am basing my opinions on isn't blind speculation.

The problem is that you are using an awful lot of "perceived" and "I think" and the like, which points out the very fact that none of us know what Andy MacPhail OR the other teams were thinking at the time.

Generally I think that you have a good point, but so do others in the argument.

[bluedog]

BS.

I'm judging what we should have been able to get based on the perceived value of Sherrill at the time. If you are too blind to realize that there are things other than just watching what moves actually do happen that can be used to base opinions on, then I don't know what to tell you.

Of course I don't know what the exact offers are. But I do think that MacPhail should have been able to get a reasonable offer for Sherrill and that pulling the trigger at that point in time would have likely been the best time.

I'm not making up stories, or playing "rumor-based fantasy jello" or any other insulting ignorant thing you want to accuse other people of. I'm assessing what value the player had, and criticizing MacPhail for not being able to find someone willing to pay enough to match or come close to that value. Its not an exact science, but its not a complete guess either.

You can be as condescending and insulting as you want, I really dont give a crap, but what I'm doing and what I am basing my opinions on isn't blind speculation.

Okay -- let's turn the tables then. As an amateur spectator of the game, what would you have offered back from the O's farm system and major league roster to acquire Sherrill at last season's trade deadline if you were running the O's and the O's were in a pennant race.

I wouldn't have offered more than 1 or 2 mid level prospects.

It was obvious to me even at the All-Star break that Sherrill was not a long term solution at closer (even then he was struggling to get through innings and was extremely lucky to have had the success he was having given his peripherals). I would have viewed him as a LOOGY at best and valued him accordingly in trade negotiations.

And I'm just a guy with a TIVO. Major League organizations must have better scouting and evaluation abilities than I do.

So what would you have offered?

[BaltimoreTerp]

You're right, none of us here were sitting in AM's office.....unless Andy is lurking here somewhere.

So because we truly don't know, is it fair to say that we can't assume that Andy worked real hard last season to trade Sherrill and the like? Or that we can't assume Andy has spoken to other GMs about Huff and Sherrill or Mora?

If we can't question the FO because we don't know what the specifics are offered or the details of the phone conversations, than we can't assume he had those conversations correct?

Exactly. We can't "assume" anything