Adam Frazier 2023

[owknows]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

Elias knew we weren’t a real contender last season

LOL

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Just to be clear, you don't have anything supporting this position but your feels.

You have a right to that position, but others have a right to point out it isn't based anything solid.

Here's what we do know: Frazier has been our second best infielder this year.  He's outperformed everyone except Mateo, and he'll soon catch him if Mateo doesn't start hitting.

And to be clear, you have nothing to support yours. You have zero idea how Westburg would be playing.

You have something to support Frazier but his defense is declining and the offense has largely seen his OPS in the 600s. And he’s very slow.

Now, I really like that Frazier puts the ball in play. He is a 2014 KC Royal guy.  They drive you crazy. I definitely feel that’s a skill that has become very underrated in todays game.  

Edited May 21, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sanity Check]

It would be one thing if Frazier was hitting like Odor last year.  He's not.  Clearly, folks just want the new shiny toys from Norfolk up here and assume they will be as good as Frazier.  There are no guarantees.  And, much of this is emotional, and it's a gamble to go from a known major league commodity to the "hope" and "promise" of someone performing well at AAA.

At the end of the day, I WANT Frazier to perform well enough that some other team finds real value in him at the deadline, and we can deal from a position of strength and maybe get some decent minor league talent back.  I don't ever see Frazier being part of a deal that brings us an ace, but maybe a player or two to develop while we promote an Ortiz for good, or a Westburg.  

In the meantime, I'll take his contributions to our current success, and we should all be happy with that.

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, owknows said:

At the time we made the signing I considered it a serious head-scratcher. At that time, I mentioned the possibility that Elias may have considered Frazier a short term stopgap, and that with a little luck he could be flipped at the deadline if he showed a sustained resurgence. I considered this an attempt by Elias to be just a little too cute. Maybe in retrospect that's how it works itself out.

Get a half-season of decent ball out of Frazier as a low risk reclamation project and flip him at peak for high value MiLB pieces at the deadline... clearing the way for Westburg... or whoever else is beating on the door.

You aren’t getting anything for Frazier at the deadline.  His value will be to the team, not in a trade.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

And to be clear, you have nothing to support yours. You have zero idea how Westburg would be playing.

You have something to support Frazier but Frazier defense is declining and the offense has largely seen his OPS in the 600s.

Now, I really like that Frazier puts the ball in play. He is a 2014 KC Royal guy.  They drive you crazy. I definitely feel that’s a skill that has become very underrated in todays game.  

No, I have something concrete supporting my position.

Frazier has been our second most valuable infielder.  And with Mateo's trajectory, probably soon to be our most.

[Sanity Check]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

You aren’t getting anything for Frazier at the deadline.  His value will be to the team, not in a trade.

Well, he's here.  If what you're saying is true.....and assuming he continues to bring value to our team, what would you do at the deadline?  Keep him and keep the kids on the farm?  Trade him for no value?  Or, cut him to make room for one of the AAA guys?  Those are your choices if you can't/won't get "anything" for him.

So, as GM, what's your move??

[DirtyBird]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And to be clear, you have nothing to support yours. You have zero idea how Westburg would be playing.

Then how about we sacrifice Gunnar’s .685 OPS to find out.

[owknows]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You aren’t getting anything for Frazier at the deadline.  His value will be to the team, not in a trade.

If he's OPSing in the .800s at the break... I'm sure you could turn a couple decent low-minors players for him.

The question is whether you think he'll regress or not.

Today's Frazier is a significant asset. So was yesterday's Mateo.

[owknows]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

Then how about we sacrifice Gunnar’s .685 OPS to find out.

I have no problem with that...  although I've been watching Gunnar's lifeless body pretty closely.. and I thought I saw it twitch.

[OriolesMagic83]

41 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

It would be one thing if Frazier was hitting like Odor last year.  He's not.  Clearly, folks just want the new shiny toys from Norfolk up here and assume they will be as good as Frazier.  There are no guarantees.  And, much of this is emotional, and it's a gamble to go from a known major league commodity to the "hope" and "promise" of someone performing well at AAA.

At the end of the day, I WANT Frazier to perform well enough that some other team finds real value in him at the deadline, and we can deal from a position of strength and maybe get some decent minor league talent back.  I don't ever see Frazier being part of a deal that brings us an ace, but maybe a player or two to develop while we promote an Ortiz for good, or a Westburg.  

In the meantime, I'll take his contributions to our current success, and we should all be happy with that.

The O's aren't getting anything valuable for Frazier.  He is who he is.  A marginal mlb bat who is limited defensively.  If the O's picked up the majority of his contract, they might get an average farm system's 25th best prospect.  Who knows, that prospect might turn into a really valuable arm, so it's worth it for a lottery ticket.  Sometimes the lottery ticket hits, just look at Cano.  Getting Cano is like spending $5 on the mega millions and winning.

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

The O's aren't getting anything valuable for Frazier.  He is who he is.  A marginal mlb bat who is limited defensively.  If the O's picked up the majority of his contract, they might get an average farm system's 25th best prospect.  Who knows, that prospect might turn into a really valuable arm, so it's worth it for a lottery ticket.  Sometimes the lottery ticket hits, just look at Cano.  Getting Cano is like spending $5 on the mega millions and winning.

And we haven't even scratched the Povich ticket yet... (And don't completely sleep on Rojas and Nunez)

[Sports Guy]

56 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

Well, he's here.  If what you're saying is true.....and assuming he continues to bring value to our team, what would you do at the deadline?  Keep him and keep the kids on the farm?  Trade him for no value?  Or, cut him to make room for one of the AAA guys?  Those are your choices if you can't/won't get "anything" for him.

So, as GM, what's your move??

Well, I don’t believe in him long term (long term meaning the course of the season).

He had a better first half in 2021 and then crapped the bed.  
 

But I think he has value in that pinch hitter, play every once in a while role…and I think that role will provide more value to the team than what he will get in trade.

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, I don’t believe in him long term (long term meaning the course of the season).

He had a better first half in 2021 and then crapped the bed.  
 

But I think he has value in that pinch hitter, play every once in a while role…and I think that role will provide more value to the team than what he will get in trade.

You think that's worth a roster spot that could be used to prep an everyday guy for a pennant run?

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

You think that's worth a roster spot that could be used to prep an everyday guy for a pennant run?

Yes..the same roster spot Vavra has now.

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

Just to be clear, you don't have anything supporting this position but your feels.

Just to be clear,  if you are referring to our thoughts on if Westburg would outperform or match Frazier, the same applies to your position.  You feel he wouldn't...I feel he would.  Neither of us can prove ourselves right or wrong.