Adam Frazier 2023

[Moose Milligan]

17 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I get that some fans/posters want the young guys/prospects to all get an opportunity. 

I hope that when they arrive all of them come up and do well right away. However, that may or may not be the case.

The bigger problem than whatever slight improvements that we might receive to our lineup with adding the positional prospects to it, is the PITCHING. Cowser, Ortiz, Westburg, Kjerstad, etc. can't pitch.

After all these guys come up, how are we going to get better pitching from 3/5's of the starters and all of the middle relievers?

Dude, if you want to hijack every thread you can talking about pitching, you're off to an awesome start.

 

[panick]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Obviously Jackson will get every chance to stay at short.  I do find it interesting that he is getting any reps at all at 2B.

I don't think I would be using that approach.

Elias places great value on versatility.

 

[panick]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Obviously Jackson will get every chance to stay at short.  I do find it interesting that he is getting any reps at all at 2B.

I don't think I would be using that approach.

Elias places great value on versatility.

 

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Obviously Jackson will get every chance to stay at short.  I do find it interesting that he is getting any reps at all at 2B.

I don't think I would be using that approach.

They like the versatility in case it’s necessary but he will be the everyday SS. It would be pretty shocking if he wasn’t. All accounts are he is good enough defensively to stay there and his ability to stay at SS was one of the main reasons they took him #1 according to Elias. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, panick said:

Elias places great value on versatility.

 

Yea, I know.

I don't agree when it comes to cornerstone players.

I think Gunnar's slightly erratic play on defense this season is, to some degree, a result of him splitting his focus. 

[Billy F-Face3]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yea, I know.

I don't agree when it comes to cornerstone players.

I think Gunnar's slightly erratic play on defense this season is, to some degree, a result of him splitting his focus. 

I happen to agree with you.  I prefer the proven method of repetition for consistency. It's a bit difficult to get peak performance at 2 or 3 different positions if you're always changing positions every few days.

When Cal moved back to 3B, he didn't switch back and forth from 3B to SS on a daily/weekly basis.

Getting comfortable in one position matters.

[SemperFi]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I know it's so easy (read: lazy) to paint Boras as some evil character who has ruined baseball.  While I'm not a particular fan of his either and I realize what I'm about to say comes off as an apologist, I'm frankly exhausted of everyone blaming him for things that haven't happened yet.  

Let's make one thing clear that we should all be able to agree on:  sports agents exist to represent the best interests of the athlete.  That's it.  They exist to negotiate contracts with teams and endorsement deals with companies. 

And no one has been able to do it better than Scott Boras, clearly.  He's the biggest and best for a reason.  AND he has the advantage of being first to market, he's been doing this since the early 80s when million dollar contracts were becoming a thing.  Wikpedia says that they have a 20 million dollar, 23,000 square foot office and a 75 person staff that include a lot of former players.  On top of the basic contracts/endorsements that an agency negotiates, they also have strength and conditioning and sports psychology services.  It's a full suite of services for a ballplayer.  It's an impressive operation and I don't think that can be denied.

To pretend that Boras "will do what is in the best interest of Boras" is silly and not based in any sort of reality.  He has repeatedly shown over the years that he's the absolute best in getting what his clients want.  Remember when Schoop wanted to sign an extension with the Tigers?  Who'd he hire to do it for him?

https://www.mlive.com/tigers/2021/10/jonathan-schoops-extension-with-tigers-gives-him-worry-free-winter-its-peace-of-mind-i-wanted.html

If Jackson Holliday is pissed that the Orioles somehow moved him off SS, you can bet that Boras will try and represent his client to the best possible outcome.  If Jackson Holliday doesn't care about being moved off SS (again, something that hasn't even happened yet) I don't think Scott Boras will really care as long as his client is happy.

 

Maybe I did a poor job of stating my position-the best interest of Boras is to serve his client and his reputation is based upon it.  Did not mean to tarnish Boras, his reputation and livelihood is based upon his clients satisfaction and the contracts he can leverage and he's the best.

My closest friend's grandson (I'm aware) was hired out of Columbia two years ago by Boras so I have decent idea of who they are and what they do.  I have nothing but respect for him and his organization, but IMO moving a premium client to a non premium position diminishes his earning value and would be a major concern for Holliday and by extension Boras.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, SemperFi said:

Maybe I did a poor job of stating my position-the best interest of Boras is to serve his client and his reputation is based upon it.  Did not mean to tarnish Boras, his reputation and livelihood is based upon his clients satisfaction and the contracts he can leverage and he's the best.

My closest friend's grandson (I'm aware) was hired out of Columbia two years ago by Boras so I have decent idea of who they are and what they do.  I have nothing but respect for him and his organization, but IMO moving a premium client to a non premium position diminishes his earning value and would be a major concern for Holliday and by extension Boras.

Fair enough, but I don't think 2nd base is a non-premium position.  I think first base is a non-premium position.  I will grant you that I don't think 2nd is as premium as SS but it's not on the other end of the spectrum.

If Jackson Holliday were indeed to move to 2nd base and hits like we all think he can and be a plus defender there, he'll have earning value.  

[Billy F-Face3]

Re: 2nd Base being/not being a premium position...

I remember when we got Robby Alomar and paid him big bucks. Alot of hype. Premium player. Pushed other players off the roster.

Good times.

[banks703]

45 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes, it’s reality.

I'll dig up some of them when I have time today but the scouting on Holliday going into his senior year was that he would likely move to CF due to his lack of arm strength and overall defensive limitations at SS. He apparently added 10-15 lbs of muscle going into his senior season and broke out in a big way, then the rest is Orioles history. He was considered a first rounder as a CF. 

The Orioles, like every team in baseball value premium defense up the middle. Jackson Holliday is never going to have the defensive prowess of Joey Ortiz or Jorge Mateo. It's just not there. Look at Witt Jr. out in KC. He was rumored to be moved off of SS because he was awful there last year. He seems to have improved considerably this year though. I suspect if they had someone else in their system highly rated, they would move Witt Jr. off of short. 

I respect the idea that Boras has enough pull within the league to ultimately get his way but I genuinely see the Orioles and Elias being less receptive to that dynamic than in years past with other leadership. Just as much as I groan about them possibly being too reliant on their data, I think that their data will prevail in the end. If roster construction comes down to what their algos tell them is their best alignment, I see that being what they put out on the field. Obviously I write that with many a grains of salt realizing how this year has gone so far as I personally do not believe that they are trotting out their best 9 every night (really, any night in my opinion given that all of Cowser, JW and Ortiz were in Norfolk). 

[Moose Milligan]

34 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Re: 2nd Base being/not being a premium position...

I remember when we got Robby Alomar and paid him big bucks. Alot of hype. Premium player. Pushed other players off the roster.

Good times.

Cool example from 25 years ago.

[SemperFi]

58 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

I happen to agree with you.  I prefer the proven method of repetition for consistency. It's a bit difficult to get peak performance at 2 or 3 different positions if you're always changing positions every few days.

When Cal moved back to 3B, he didn't switch back and forth from 3B to SS on a daily/weekly basis.

Getting comfortable in one position matters.

I think we all value versatility because injuries are a huge part of the game but so much of baseball is repetition building muscle memory.  I've seen missed cut off responsibilities, memory gaffes or lazy backhands-guys lose concentration especially after deflating errors or homeruns. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Cool example from 25 years ago.

Cano made serious bank.

[banks703]

42 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Fair enough, but I don't think 2nd base is a non-premium position.  I think first base is a non-premium position.  I will grant you that I don't think 2nd is as premium as SS but it's not on the other end of the spectrum.

If Jackson Holliday were indeed to move to 2nd base and hits like we all think he can and be a plus defender there, he'll have earning value.  

Robinson Cano is my comp for Jackson Holliday. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, banks703 said:

Robinson Cano is my comp for Jackson Holliday. 

Hopefully minus the PEDs.