Ortiz vs Westburg

[maybenxtyr]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m more than happy to have them both up right now but I think it’s likely we need to deal one to get what we need.

Now, I’m in agreement about a super UTI role for Westburg and I would do that before trading him for a subpar guy.

 

Yeah, I hate to beat a dead horse, but he should be here. I may be wrong, but I'd have zero reservations about flipping Mateo for a high A arm if possible.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

Urias, Mateo, and Mountcastle are all under cost controlled under multi-year contracts.

You say that you want to trade them all. That’s fine. What kind of trade value do you think any of them have? 

I guess I’m asking - Do you want to trade them for the sake of trading them or do you believe that they are the best players to trade who will bring back the most value?

Small correction, they aren't under multi-year contracts.  All of them can be non-tendered by the team during the off-season.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, maybenxtyr said:

Yeah, I hate to beat a dead horse, but he should be here. I may be wrong, but I'd have zero reservations about flipping Mateo for a high A arm if possible.

Why not?  The horse doesn't care.

[maybenxtyr]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Why not?  The horse doesn't care.

He doesn't. Some folks here do though. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, maybenxtyr said:

Yeah, I hate to beat a dead horse, but he should be here. I may be wrong, but I'd have zero reservations about flipping Mateo for a high A arm if possible.

No dead horse. I agree but even if we did that, it’s very likely that a decision between these 2 has to be made within the next calendar year.

It’s definitely possible that his value could increase if they called him up but I think it’s very likely one of these guys has to be in a trade package this deadline to get what they need to get.

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

In the scenario you propose we get rid of all four of those guys. If we are going to trade them as suggest, what value do you believe those guys hold? My assumption (maybe incorrectly) is that we wouldn’t just trade productive players for the sake of making a trade. But that the purpose of that trade(s) would be to acquire players that can help our team get better?

Does that sound reasonable?

My assertion is that the team gets better with the addition of Holliday, Ortiz, Henderson, and Westburg,

and the subtraction of Mateo, Urias, Frazier, and Mountcastle.

Any players you might acquire would either be arms.. or low minors high value players to put back on the conveyor belt. Preferably and most likely the latter.

Losing Frazier is a foregone conclusion. He's on a one year contract. If he keeps this level of play.. and you want to get anything for him at all.. you'd have to flip him at the break. Otherwise no return. Not getting much out of a Frazier rental in either case.

Mateo's value is sinking like a stone. He's ticking off years of control... but he's either on fire... or he may as well not even bat.

Urias objectively probably has the highest value of this group... but even he is of limited trade value.

Mountcastle may be one of those players that figures it out at some point... but he's maddeningly streaky.

In short... you seem to be concerned about what you're getting back from Mateo, Urias, Frazier, and Mountcastle in terms of impact MLB players.. and the answer to that question is nothing. Because they don't have MLB impact values... for either years of control reasons.. inconsistency... or otherwise

[emmett16]

I’d like to keep them both.  Ortiz everyday 2B and Westburg 3B/ss/2b/1b/lf/rf/DH.  Essentially replace Vavra with Westburg, Frazier with Ortiz.  

[forphase1]

3 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

Mountcastle will be here until they either sign or trade for a 1B. 

Don't agree with this.   Mayo or Heston will take his place in the near future I think.   Mayo isn't going to stay at 3rd long term with the Os IMO, Heston may stay in the outfield though. 

[HandsomeQuack]

I feel like Westburg has the higher ceiling and Ortiz has the higher floor. Assuming Holliday is a ML-level SS defensively, Westburg probably projects to be the more valuable player to this team.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

He doesn't. Some folks here do though. 

I'm guessing the majority of posts made here bother at least one reader.

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, forphase1 said:

Don't agree with this.   Mayo or Heston will take his place in the near future I think.   Mayo isn't going to stay at 3rd long term with the Os IMO, Heston may stay in the outfield though. 

Both of them will definitely be options. I was more referring to the short term for the rest of this season. I don't dislike Mountcastle, but me and everyone else probably wishes he could put up his "typical season" while doing it without the highs and lows. 

[owknows]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I'm guessing the majority of posts made here bother at least one reader.

Shut up

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm guessing the majority of posts made here bother at least one reader.

I know. It just seems lately the only discussions have been about Frazier and Westburg. Both sides of those conversations seem to be entrenched and willing to die on their respective hills.

[emmett16]

1 minute ago, maybenxtyr said:

Both of them will definitely be options. I was more referring to the short term for the rest of this season. I don't dislike Mountcastle, but me and everyone else probably wishes he could put up his "typical season" while doing it without the highs and lows. 

The entire season kind of rests on whether or not he goes on a heater in late October or is stone cold.He can be a one man wrecking ball for a few weeks at a time. 

[bpilktree]

40 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

Mateo likely has little to no trade value currently. Have you watched him hit in May? lol

As far as Urias, I’m okay with trading him. But what kind of return can he really bring back if he is the centerpiece of the deal?

Most likely Westburg and Ortiz, would have more value to a rebuilding team. The type of team that we will need to execute a trade with in order to obtain a serious starting pitching upgrade.

As far as Holliday goes, I totally disagree. Are you watching closely what the young man is doing? Few in the game have ever produced those kind of numbers AT ANY LEVEL of the minors! He has an on base average of over .500 for the almost 60 games that he has played thus far AND is hitting .400 this season thus far. That’s absolutely top of the charts ELITE! That’s not a guy that you slow walk through the minors like almost everyone else. If and that’s an IF, he continues to produce at the level that he has since being a pro, it would be org practice to try to keep him down in the Minors for another season and a half. In all honesty, he is probably better than Westburg and Ortiz right now. The kid appears to be that special. If you don’t agree with my assessment that’s fine. But please point out one issue or weakness in his game.

Mateo still has plenty of value.  He plays amazing defense and top notch speed and athleticism for any team.  His bat is the question and difference between an above average player and a bonifide all star.  He put up 3.3 war last season In his first full season.  He clearly wasn’t as good as a hitter as he was the start of year but not as bad as this month.  He can hit around .250 with OBP around .300 with the way he plays defense and can run the bases at league minimum and lots of teams will value that.