And so itbegins

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you spend it on passable SS/3B defense and a 417 slugging?

Do you spend it on a 1B with a 356 slugging?

You should be spending the first pick on the best player in that draft class.  An absolute stud isn't there every year.  Even you know this.

 

That being said I'm fine with the bat but I'm disappointed in the glove this year.  I think the number of games he's playing is a factor.

 

We may not have taken the best player. We don’t know that yet. 
 

People think careers are defined in a few seasons.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The thing is, people want to comp him to catchers. We need to comp him to just elite players overall.

Thats what we need him to be. Elite. That’s what you drafted him for. You didn’t draft him to be a very good player. You drafted him to be THE foundational piece for the franchise. 

That’s the ability and talent level he has.

Good but not great C defense and a 430 slugging isn’t that guy. That’s not what you spend the first pick on.

 

That’s hilarious.  I’ll take ten years exactly like this one and thank God every day that we drafted Adley no. 1.   I’m not saying he can’t get better — I expect he will — but if “all” he does is produce 5 WAR/yr. at C I’ll take that any day of the week.  The guy has just a few weeks more than a year in the majors and he’s already outproduced 21 of the 54 1:1’s who preceded him.  He’s got a pretty good chance to be one of the top five 1:1 picks of all time, without doing anything more than he’s doing right now.  

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We may not have taken the best player. We don’t know that yet. 
 

People think careers are defined in a few seasons.

Pretty sure I didn't state they did.

 

[Sports Guy]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s hilarious.  I’ll take ten years exactly like this one and thank God every day that we drafted Adley no. 1.   I’m not saying he can’t get better — I expect he will — but if “all” he does is produce 5 WAR/yr. at C I’ll take that any day of the week.  The guy has just a few weeks more than a year in the majors and he’s already outproduced 21 of the 54 1:1’s who preceded him.  He’s got a pretty good chance to be one of the top five 1:1 picks of all time, without doing anything more than he’s doing right now.  

I believe you felt he was going to be a 7+ WAR, MVP level player.

So now, you are going to be ok with settling on him being a lesser player a few months later.

Also, you are confusing things. There are 2 different conversations now.

Conversation 1:  are you happy with a 5 WAR player?  The answer is obviously yes.

Conversation 2: Is that enough and is that the impact we were expecting?

I was EXPECTING him to be a lot more this year. I said a few months ago that anything under 6 WAR would be disappointing to me. Now, you may think that’s absurd (even though you felt he would be as good as I felt) but that’s because you have been a fan of a team that doesn’t normally have an elite player in it.

This is his prime. I don’t expect him to be at the level 5+ years from now and I would be ecstatic to get an average of 5 WAR over his career. However, if he is “just a 5 WAR” player now, what’s he going to be in 3-4 years?

And then enter into this the continuing should we extend him conversation.

And btw, he’s on a 4.5 WAR pace. 

Im not unhappy With Adley..but I am disappointed at the defense and the lack of power. The BA/OBP is great. But he needs to be more than that imo.

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We may not have taken the best player. We don’t know that yet. 
 

People think careers are defined in a few seasons.

Of course we don’t know that.  We do know we drafted a very good player.  

For the record, I have really been impressed with Bobby Witt when I’ve seen him. He’s only been worth 1.3 rWAR so far, but he has a lot of tools and I could see him exploding.

Corbin Carroll was drafted 1:16 out of High School that year and he’s looking like the NL rookie of the year right now.  3.8 rWAR already in his career.  

Lots of other talent in that class and maybe a player or two will turn out to be better than Adley.  But Adley was the surest bet on the board, had a very high ceiling and floor, and is living up to the hype. 


 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I believe you felt he was going to be a 7+ WAR, MVP level player.

So now, you are going to be ok with settling on him being a lesser player a few months later.

Also, you are confusing things. There are 2 different conversations now.

Conversation 1:  are you happy with a 5 WAR player?  The answer is obviously yes.

Conversation 2: Is that enough and is that the impact we were expecting?

I was EXPECTING him to be a lot more this year. I said a few months ago that anything under 6 WAR would be disappointing to me. Now, you may think that’s absurd (even though you felt he would be as good as I felt) but that’s because you have been a fan of a team that doesn’t normally have an elite player in it.

This is his prime. I don’t expect him to be at the level 5+ years from now and I would be ecstatic to get an average of 5 WAR over his career. However, if he is “just a 5 WAR” player now, what’s he going to be in 3-4 years?

And then enter into this the continuing should we extend him conversation.

And btw, he’s on a 4.5 WAR pace. 

Im not unhappy With Adley..but I am disappointed at the defense and the lack of power. The BA/OBP is great. But he needs to be more than that imo.

As to my expectations, it depends when you’re talking about.  When we drafted him, I was hoping he could be a 5 WAR/yr player.  He’s living up to that and I’m more than happy with his production. 

Based on last year, when he was worth 5.2 rWAR in 3/4 of a season and played at an 8 WAR pace after his initial month, I did think he had a good shot at being a 7-8 WAR player this year.   But it’s not the offense that’s holding him back from that. So, I’m not disappointed in his offense.  As to his defense, I’d say I’m a little disappointed this year so far.  A better word might be puzzled.  

Bottom line, the team has been winning since the day Adley arrived and it’s winning more often last year than this one.  Adley is the biggest reason that’s happened.  So no, I’m not disappointed.  

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

As to my expectations, it depends when you’re talking about.  When we drafted him, I was hoping he could be a 5 WAR/yr player.  He’s living up to that and I’m more than happy with his production. 

Based on last year, when he was worth 5.2 rWAR in 3/4 of a season and played at an 8 WAR pace after his initial month, I did think he had a good shot at being a 7-8 WAR player this year.   But it’s not the offense that’s holding him back from that. So, I’m not disappointed in his offense.  As to his defense, I’d say I’m a little disappointed this year so far.  A better word might be puzzled.  

Bottom line, the team has been winning since the day Adley arrived and it’s winning more often last year than this one.  Adley is the biggest reason that’s happened.  So no, I’m not disappointed.  

 

Well now you are just moving the goalposts w/r/t Adley but fair enough. 

[SteveA]

On 6/7/2023 at 10:21 PM, Ginger said:

Mediocre starters. Stinko infield. Weiters revisited.  Middling middle  relievers. Not a star in sight. Blah. Blah. Blah. I’m going to bed.

Stay in bed.   We haven't lost since you posted this.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 hours ago, SteveA said:

Stay in bed.   We haven't lost since you posted this.

Can wake up when the season ends.

 

[EddeeEddee]

Adley Rutschman has more ABs than any catcher in baseball this year (just ahead of Salvador Perez).  Even though about 25% of those ABs have come as a DH or PH, it seems like he needs a bit more rest.  It's the toughest position in baseball, and he's playing more than just about any other catcher even though he hasn't played a full season in the bigs yet. 

It seems like most top catchers are a bit cooler at the plate this year.  Sean Murphy is the only starting catcher that is really raking right now.  

[deward]

On 6/9/2023 at 9:05 AM, Sports Guy said:

The thing is, people want to comp him to catchers. We need to comp him to just elite players overall.

Thats what we need him to be. Elite. That’s what you drafted him for. You didn’t draft him to be a very good player. You drafted him to be THE foundational piece for the franchise. 

That’s the ability and talent level he has.

Good but not great C defense and a 430 slugging isn’t that guy. That’s not what you spend the first pick on.

 

Disagree here, you draft him first overall to be elite at his position. If he's the 1st or 2nd best catcher in all of baseball, that's a home run of a pick, and a foundational piece of any franchise.

[now]

2 hours ago, deward said:

Disagree here, you draft him first overall to be elite at his position. If he's the 1st or 2nd best catcher in all of baseball, that's a home run of a pick, and a foundational piece of any franchise.

Here we go again with the relative value for catchers question. It remains a puzzle. On the one hand, if your catcher outperforms everyone else's catcher, that's a big advantage. On the other hand, having a top catcher you lose a significant chunk of playing time at the position (for rest, and also career longevity) compared to investing your #1 at another position. I have yet to see anyone make sense of this tradeoff in any objective/statistical way. 

PS. All of that said, there is also the subjective dimension to consider: framing, pitch calling, hugs, leadership, clubhouse, charisma, winning juju, captainamericaness, etc. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by now

[Mr-splash]

God some people are terrible fans. Adley is a franchise catcher. Is he as good as Johnny Bench? Hell no. Is he as good as Buster Posey or Joe Mauer? Nope. Is he one of the best catchers in the MLB and a championship quality player to build around? You bet your ass he is. 

 

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Mr-splash said:

God some people are terrible fans. Adley is a franchise catcher. Is he as good as Johnny Bench? Hell no. Is he as good as Buster Posey or Joe Mauer? Nope. Is he one of the best catchers in the MLB and a championship quality player to build around? You bet your ass he is. 

 

 

I do believe SG wants to be looked at as someone who has original thoughts. 
 

Is anyone, anywhere saying they’re disappointed in Adley? No. 
 

But SG is. And that makes him a rebel of sorts, if you will. A contrarian. Someone who “can think outside the box” because he’s on a different plane than the rest of us. 
 

Adley’s just fine. 

[Daddy-O's]

There will come a time when they won't need his bat in the lineup everyday.  They will have Henderson, Holliday, Cowser, Kjerstad to lean on.  When that  day comes, and he is not expected to carry the weight of the entire organization on his shoulders, then we may appreciate him more and not pick at every imperfection.