Bautista vs. other closers

[dystopia]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The main problem being that at some point you want the game to be over so you can do something else you planned to do, or go to sleep.  But the stress on a pitching staff is a problem too.  

It's not like 15 inning games were happening every other day like some on here seem to think. 

[spiritof66]

6 minutes ago, dystopia said:

I'm fine with all of them except the ghost runner. 

He's not a ghost runner.  You can't see a ghost -- you just think he's there. A ghost runner is someone that players pretend is on the bases, and can score runs, even though there's nobody standing there because there's a shortage of payers. In my neighborhood, we called him the imaginary man, as in "imaginary men on second, two outs." Same thing.  The runner in MLB games is in no way a ghost -- he's really there.

I think a better rule would be to put the extra runner at first base, at least for the tenth and eleventh inning. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, dystopia said:

It's not like 15 inning games were happening every other day like some on here seem to think. 

No one said that. 

[dystopia]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

He's not a ghost runner.  You can't see a ghost -- you just think he's there. A ghost runner is someone that players pretend is on the bases, and can score runs, even though there's nobody standing there because there's a shortage of payers. In my neighborhood, we called him the imaginary man, as in "imaginary men on second, two outs." Same thing.  The runner in MLB games is in no way a ghost -- he's really there.

I think a better rule would be to put the extra runner at first base, at least for the tenth and eleventh inning. 

Here's why I hate the rule and think it defiles the game. It is now possible for a pitcher to throw a perfect game and still lose. Is that at all likely to happen? Of course not, but theoretically it's possible -- and it shouldn't be.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, dystopia said:

Here's why I hate the rule and think it defiles the game. It is now possible for a pitcher to throw a perfect game and still lose. Is that at all likely to happen? Of course not, but theoretically it's possible -- and it shouldn't be.

Harvey Haddix threw 12 perfect innings 1959 and lost the game in 13.

He didn't get a perfect game either.

[dystopia]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Harvey Haddix threw 12 perfect innings 1959 and lost the game in 13.

He didn't get a perfect game either.

Because he didn’t pitch one. 

[Bemorewins]

30 minutes ago, dystopia said:

I'm fine with all of them except the ghost runner. 

I'm fine with the ghost runner because it is in line with all of the other major sports in terms of helping to speed up the conclusion of a regular season game that is tied after regulation. I remember the 18 inning games and want no part of that ever again.

[dystopia]

13 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I'm fine with the ghost runner because it is in line with all of the other major sports in terms of helping to speed up the conclusion of a regular season game that is tied after regulation. I remember the 18 inning games and want no part of that ever again.

We're talking about 1 or 2 games out of 162. I guess I just don't see the big deal. I feel like I'm watching little league when we're gifting teams runners just for the sake of it.

[foxfield]

53 minutes ago, HOF19 said:

Hey at least we know when to use our closer .Mets fans .....Mets beat Writers and Mets tv play-by-play announcers wondering why he (Buck Showalter) let Phillies win game on their last at-bat (Phillies Scored 4 runs on 1 base hit  ....5 Walks and 2 hit batters) .Mets closer was warming but Buck never put him in the game .......Mets lost by blowing 3 run lead Phillis last at bat .

You guy's are not seeing it the way Buck was.  He KNEW the Phillies were going to score and go ahead, so he kept his closer in case they regained the lead.  I mean.....come on man.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, dystopia said:

We're talking about 1 or 2 games out of 162. I guess I just don't see the big deal. I feel like I'm watching little league when we're gifting teams runners just for the sake of it.

In 2019 there were 260 games played that were longer than 10 innings, 143 longer than 11.   In 2022 there were 81 and 28, respectively.  That’s a pretty significant impact, whether or not you like the rule.  

[dystopia]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

In 2019 there were 260 games played that were longer than 10 innings, 143 longer than 11.   In 2022 there were 81 and 28, respectively.  That’s a pretty significant impact, whether or not you like the rule.  

2 out of 162 were 15 innings or longer that year for the O's. In 2018, there were 2 that were 14 innings or longer. The poster I responded to specifically said 18 innings. 

I don't like it when games last that long, but I don't think 1 or 2 games a year like that was enough to warrant such a drastic rule change (although that game where Chris Davis got the win was an undeniable classic).

[Bemorewins]

16 minutes ago, dystopia said:

We're talking about 1 or 2 games out of 162. I guess I just don't see the big deal. I feel like I'm watching little league when we're gifting teams runners just for the sake of it.

I don't know if it would be 1 or 2 games out of 162. It seemed that in the last few years every extra inning game was extended and most didn't end at the earliest until the 11th.

Both teams get the same "gift". I guess it was either the ghost runner or a home run hitting contest after the game was tied after 9 innings? lol

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, dystopia said:

2 out of 162 were 15 innings or longer that year for the O's. In 2018, there were 2 that were 14 innings or longer. The poster I responded to specifically said 18 innings. 

I don't like it when games last that long, but I don't think 1 or 2 games a year like that was enough to warrant such a drastic rule change (although that game where Chris Davis got the win was an undeniable classic).

Generally, I’m in favor of shorter extra inning games, regardless of how many innings.  Plus, as some have said, I like the emphasis it puts on the ability to execute small ball.  I’ve watched too many extra inning games where it seemed like all the hitters were swinging for the fences hoping to end the bane or put their team ahead with one long ball.  

[Hallas]

7 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Imagine wanting to see a 15 inning game because that’s the way we always did it. 

I want to see a 15 inning game because I want to see a position player strike out a .900 OPS batter with a 92 mph fastball and a splitter.

[Hallas]

To Frobby's original point, Bautista looks a little better when you use WPA based shutdowns/meltdowns.  If you add at least 6% to your team's win probability you get a shutdown, if you lose at least that much you get a meltdown.

 

Among the top-10 saves leaders in MLB, Bautista is 5th in shutdown/meltdown ratio, behind Alexis Diaz, Carlos Estevez, David Bednar, and Paul Sewald.  Not great but still decent.  He's definitely choked in a couple crucial situations.  But he's overall so dominant that I'm not holding that against him.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Hallas