Does Grey Rod looking like an ace and the potential of Means coming back diminish the pressure for another starter?

[Jammer7]

53 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

Here's a study by Keith Law showing that experience doesn't matter for much.  

http://www.espn.com/mlb/playoffs2000/2000/1006/803589.html

I already read it, and spoke of his opinion in my last reply. It doesn’t prove anything, either way. It says that playoff experience had a slight edge. The answer is probably more complicated, and organic in nature. Intrinsic to each situation. We’re not going to change the opinion of the other. You said yourself that experience does matter.

In the pursuit of a World Series tiitle, you want every advantage you can get. After watching Wells fold and get punked out by Judge and Stanton tonight, I think we’re a TOR starter short. Wells got intimidated by Judge, and you face the best in the playoffs. We need pitchers who have the confidence and courage to challenge the best. To pitch with conviction. I hope we add someone like that. 

[emmett16]

7 hours ago, Gurgi said:

After last nights game by Grey Rod I thought "that is the ace we have been waiting for".  It made me think that the pressure on Elias to get another starter has got to be diminished.  Elias mentioned that it seemed to be a sellers market and he wasnt willing to blow up the minor leagues for this seasons playoff run.  

Then you know he has way more updated and accurate reports on Means.  Means probably goes to the bullpen but he possibly could start in September some.  

Makes me think the likely result of all this is that Elias only gets us a bullpen arm and calls it a night.  

Which doesnt upset me.  I have fallen in love with our prospects and dont want to get rid of any of them.

I’ve been beating this drum for a while now.  I can’t see them getting any SP of significance.  Maybe a low key under the radar guy to eat innings.  I think they will add a bullpen arm or two.  Bradish + GRod + Wells/Kremer/means will be the playoff starting pitchers.  

[Moshagge3]

6 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

I already read it, and spoke of his opinion in my last reply. It doesn’t prove anything, either way. It says that playoff experience had a slight edge. The answer is probably more complicated, and organic in nature. Intrinsic to each situation. We’re not going to change the opinion of the other. You said yourself that experience does matter.

In the pursuit of a World Series tiitle, you want every advantage you can get. After watching Wells fold and get punked out by Judge and Stanton tonight, I think we’re a TOR starter short. Wells got intimidated by Judge, and you face the best in the playoffs. We need pitchers who have the confidence and courage to challenge the best. To pitch with conviction. I hope we add someone like that. 

How do you mean, "Wells was intimidated by Judge"? He came right after him. The problem is that his fastball right now is nowhere near good enough to get by Judge. Stuff, not mental makeup, is the issue here. The O's walked Judge three times Friday night, which suggests being intimidated a lot more, but they won the game. 

[FlipTheBird]

1 hour ago, Moshagge3 said:

How do you mean, "Wells was intimidated by Judge"? He came right after him. The problem is that his fastball right now is nowhere near good enough to get by Judge. Stuff, not mental makeup, is the issue here. The O's walked Judge three times Friday night, which suggests being intimidated a lot more, but they won the game. 

Walking Aaron Judge is just good baseball, as the Yankees lineup beyond him is wildly unimpressive.

[OriolesMagic83]

If Gray Rod pitches like that the rest of the year. WE can talk about him as a potential ace.  Anything else is premature.

[Jammer7]

5 hours ago, Moshagge3 said:

How do you mean, "Wells was intimidated by Judge"? He came right after him. The problem is that his fastball right now is nowhere near good enough to get by Judge. Stuff, not mental makeup, is the issue here. The O's walked Judge three times Friday night, which suggests being intimidated a lot more, but they won the game. 

Walking someone is not necessarily being intimidated. A smart pitcher sometimes pitches around a hitter you do not want to beat you. Especially with men on base. They try to make specific pitches and get a chase, but if they miss they err on the side of caution as to not miss over the middle of the plate.

I don’t care if we walk Judge four times a game, honestly. I would throw inside off the plate though, early in the at bat, and see what he might chase. A sinker and/or a change up, a four seam on his hands, and then the slider down and away. Bounce the curve or slider if you get ahead inside. Just do not miss with the four seam above the belt in the middle or outer half where he gets his arms extended. They know that, and maybe Wells just cannot execute right now and he is afraid of making a mistake. 

I was a little aggravated after watching Wells tonight. My criticism might have been a little harsh. He is not right at the moment. Wells, and other Orioles’ pitchers, need to pitch inside much more. I am tired of seeing our pitchers throw four consecutive fastballs on the outer half in the upper quadrant. They make it easier to hit, and foul those pitches off. Sosa hit an oppo shot in Philly on such a sequence. Someone else did too, I think the Dodgers series. Just too predictable right now. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Jammer7

[Baltimorecuse]

I think Elias laid it right out.  He's not going to give away the future to get another pitcher.  

In the off season you can get a starter for cash in terms of salary.  This has had mixed results for different teams.  

Elias knows a lot more about this than anyone here.  I'll trust his judgement.  

[Jagwar]

13 hours ago, LA2 said:

Rodriguez is not going to the bullpen. He'd only have to make 8-9 more starts and he's only thrown 62.33 big-league innings. We'll see what Wells' condition is today.

Don't forget his 41.1 innings with Norfolk. They count too. 

[LA2]

37 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Don't forget his 41.1 innings with Norfolk. They count too. 

Thanks, but I didn't--as I mentioned in a follow-up, I'm going to consider those relatively low-stress efforts for someone who had already proven himself at that level. Totally understand tho, why people wd want to count them. I'll give them half-credit and add 20.2 to the big-league innings for a total of 83 on the season.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Jagwar said:

Don't forget his 41.1 innings with Norfolk. They count too. 

They definitely do.  But Grayson sure doesn’t look like he’s getting near the end of his tank.  Wells, on the other hand, looks like a guy who is feeling the wear and tear.  

[RVAOsFan]

I expect the Orioles to make a trade for a starter in the next 48 hours that will come in and replace Wells in the rotation. Wells should go on the IL with dead arm, get some rest and treatment and come back as a bullpen arm.

I still think he has a huge role for the remainder of the year but he needs to get that arm back to what it was before the break. 

[wildcard]

If anything I think GRod pitch well and Means coming back in Sept puts more pressure on Elias to add a starter at the deadline.  He has built the O's into a contender.   But they have to get through August and Wells is fading so much as a starter that he probably needs to go to the pen.

When Wells left in the 3rd I thought we would see Irvin become the long reliever and eat innings.  But Hyde did not seem to trust him enough to allow him to go more than 1.1 IP.   If he didn't trust him there how does he trust him to take Wells starting role.

Looks like Elias needs to add a starter and he has until Tuesday to do it.

Edited July 30, 2023 by wildcard

[ChuckS]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

If anything I think GRod pitch well and Means coming back in Sept puts more pressure on Elias to add a starter at the deadline.  He has built the O's to contend.   But they have to get through August and Wells is fading so much as a starter that he probably needs to go to the pen.

When Wells left in the 3rd I thought we would see Irvin become the long reliever and eat innings.  But Hyde did not seem to trust him enough to allow him to go more than 1.1 IP.   If he didn't trust him there how does he trust to take Wells starting role.

Looks like Elias needs to add a starter and he has until Tuesday to do it.

Do we know Means is coming back in September? 

[7Mo]

9 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I expect the Orioles to make a trade for a starter in the next 48 hours that will come in and replace Wells in the rotation. Wells should go on the IL with dead arm, get some rest and treatment and come back as a bullpen arm.

I still think he has a huge role for the remainder of the year but he needs to get that arm back to what it was before the break. 

I agree. We need a starter to allow Wells to go to the pen where I believe he will be very good the rest of the year. Wells returns to the rotation next year.

My guess is they're taking a run at Logan Gilbert or Bryce Miller but if the price is too high, they wind up with someone like Jordan Montgomery, Steven Matz or JP Sears. I'd say Ortiz only goes for a guy like Gilbert or Miller.

I'm thinking Grayson starts until mid to late Sept and then he moves to the pen. Means won't have time to build up as a starter but if Wells, Grayson and Means are added to the pen for the playoffs, I'd feel pretty good.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Do we know Means is coming back in September? 

What? You want a guarantee?   Sorry I don't think you will get one.   Means is projected to return in Sept.  Will he?