Orioles biggest problem

[OriolesMagic83]

11 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I don’t think that would be the top priority for Cohen. That won’t work in a market/media like New York, especially with the cross town rivalry with the Yanks.

That works in a market like this one where the remaining fanbase has lowered their expectations almost as low as can be, where just having a winning season seems to be acceptable to most/many. In NY it’s all about championships and chasing them. 

I’m not how familiar you are with that market, but it’s utterly laughable to think that some of the things that have flow here would even be a thought to try in NY. 

It’s one thing to be the Dodgers where you have the best of both worlds - the top farm system and one of the best teams. But that is a unique situation and Elias hasn’t shown that he can get to that point without a total tear down. 

If you think that my point is off base, jump on some NY cable sports stations, or listen to a few Yanks or Mets podcast or New York based radio like Michael Kay’s show.

Cohen literally said the Mets are not trying to win in 2024.  That was a big reason that Scherzer and Verlander left.  He said the team is building toward 2025 and 2026.  He said he wants the Mets to win a championship based on its farm system.  Just read some of his quotes.  I think he realized he can't overtake the Braves with just free agents.

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Cohen literally said the Mets are not trying to win in 2024.  That was a big reason that Scherzer and Verlander left.  He said the team is building toward 2025 and 2026.  He said he wants the Mets to win a championship based on its farm system.  Just read some of his quotes.  I think he realized he can't overtake the Braves with just free agents.

We will see if that is just more than talk. There will be tremendous pressure on him to bid for Ohtani.

But back to the OP’s original concern, IMO the events of yesterday once again reminded us, that the Biggest impediment to this franchise’s success BY FAR, is anyone with a last name Angelou’s being attached to ownership.

That IS, WAS, and probably will ALWAYS BE the greatest problem of this organization.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 8/7/2023 at 8:05 AM, Fan4Life said:

Would you root for the Nashville Orioles, just curious. 

If MLB decided to cast aside 141 years of Baltimore Orioles history and abandon this fanbase it would be quick and seamless transition to just watching soccer year-round.

In a detached and abstract way I'd be happy for Gunnar and Rutchman's successes, but MLB would be dead to me.

[Frobby]

21 minutes ago, wildcard said:

As the person acting for majority owner Peter, Georgia does have unilateral power over John and the team.   I think this what was presented to the court when Lou sued.  John is only the person designated to run the team because Georgia has given him that right.  And she has the right to take it away.

I am power of attorney for my mother who is 100.  In the POA it states I have the right to sell, lease, manage everything for her.    

Please tell me how Peter and Georgia situation is different.

Because it requires the consent of MLB to change the person designated to control the team.  Simple as that.  

[wildcard]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Because it requires the consent of MLB to change the person designated to control the team.  Simple as that.  

Consent that Georgia could get if she decided to change who is the designated person to someone that is respected by the other owners.   I am not saying she would, but she has the power to submit a change and get it approved.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Consent that Georgia could get if she decided to change who is the designated person to someone that is respected by the other owners.   I am not saying she would, but she has the power to submit a change and get it approved.

I’m not disputing that MLB could approve a change, but they don’t have to.  Needless to say, I’d be delighted if she decided to propose a change to “someone who is respected by the other owners.”   I’m not holding my breath.  

[sportsfan8703]

34 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

We will see if that is just more than talk. There will be tremendous pressure on him to bid for Ohtani.

But back to the OP’s original concern, IMO the events of yesterday once again reminded us, that the Biggest impediment to this franchise’s success BY FAR, is anyone with a last name Angelou’s being attached to ownership.

That IS, WAS, and probably will ALWAYS BE the greatest problem of this organization.

Ohtani would be such a great fit here but it’s clear to me that John doesn’t want to spend anything. So he’s going to enjoy this run with Elias and pocket as much money as he can. Winning a ring isn’t the goal. Also, I know people will disagree with this, but now I understand why Peter was never “at” Oriole games. For the owner, someone is always going to read into it the wrong way. It’s hard for a billionaire to come away “looking good”. JA looked sleezy with the trade deadline near. 

[Tony-OH]

21 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Well we don’t know that #2 is correct or should I say, we don’t know that it’s completely correct.

We know that Elias basically said that ownership wouldn’t allow him to “buy a prospect”…he said that after the SF/LAA deal years back.

We know he has let him do certain things for sure but I tend to doubt that he has let him do everything he wants, especially w/r/t extensions.

There is little doubt that Elias has been under very tight payroll options since he salary dumped players like Jonathan Villar and Alex Cobb for lesser prospects because I'm sure he was unable to eat some of the contracts in order to get back better prospect returns. 

It's like when Kevin Gausman was traded to the Braves and Darren O'Day and his contract was included instead of getting back better prospects from a loaded Braves farm system at the time. 

Even the trades of Castro, Bleier, Scott/Sulser and Givens all reek of trades that were made to lose payroll vs actually getting good prospect returns. Now I could be wrong on these moves and maybe Elias/Sig's team just weren't good at evaluating the talent returned for these major league relievers, but it seems like he was more interested in losing payroll then actually getting good talent in return for useable relief pieces.

Then you add in this offseason when Elias was all about "take off" until he got his budget and I think Elias may be able to make the moves he wants, but it's under the tight budgetary options given to him by ownership.

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Ohtani would be such a great fit here but it’s clear to me that John doesn’t want to spend anything. So he’s going to enjoy this run with Elias and pocket as much money as he can. Winning a ring isn’t the goal. Also, I know people will disagree with this, but now I understand why Peter was never “at” Oriole games. For the owner, someone is always going to read into it the wrong way. It’s hard for a billionaire to come away “looking good”. JA looked sleezy with the trade deadline near. 

No no. I was never suggesting anything about John Angelos winning a bid for Ohtani. That IMO is preposterous.

I was talking about Cohen being pressured by the New York media/market/fanbase to bid for Ohtani this offseason.

Yes John Angelos IMO is not really interested in supporting Elias in any meaningful way in regards to staffing the best team that we can on the field.

Thus my point was he (John Angelos) IMO is by far the biggest problem that the Orioles have, not the loss of Elias as the OP stated.

IMO - even if Elias stays, sustained winning with an owner as terrible as John Angelos is going to be very hard.

[milbest77]

I had thought about this before the whole KB fiasco yesterday, but I can see about 25 other teams wanting Elias/Hyde/Sig this offseason or next. Figure we rule out TB, Texas, Dodgers, Braves, and Astros. But all other teams will come sniffing, I fear. And they might be happy to take a hike because ownership won’t give them further support. Depressing to think about after all we have been through to get to where we are now

[sportsfan8703]

27 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

There is little doubt that Elias has been under very tight payroll options since he salary dumped players like Jonathan Villar and Alex Cobb for lesser prospects because I'm sure he was unable to eat some of the contracts in order to get back better prospect returns. 

It's like when Kevin Gausman was traded to the Braves and Darren O'Day and his contract was included instead of getting back better prospects from a loaded Braves farm system at the time. 

Even the trades of Castro, Bleier, Scott/Sulser and Givens all reek of trades that were made to lose payroll vs actually getting good prospect returns. Now I could be wrong on these moves and maybe Elias/Sig's team just weren't good at evaluating the talent returned for these major league relievers, but it seems like he was more interested in losing payroll then actually getting good talent in return for useable relief pieces.

Then you add in this offseason when Elias was all about "take off" until he got his budget and I think Elias may be able to make the moves he wants, but it's under the tight budgetary options given to him by ownership.

Elias has us at the point now where budget really only comes into play when talking about extensions for Gunnar and Adley. Outside of that, Elias has built a machine of talent and can win over 162 for a nice run. 

[wildcard]

32 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

There is little doubt that Elias has been under very tight payroll options since he salary dumped players like Jonathan Villar and Alex Cobb for lesser prospects because I'm sure he was unable to eat some of the contracts in order to get back better prospect returns. 

It's like when Kevin Gausman was traded to the Braves and Darren O'Day and his contract was included instead of getting back better prospects from a loaded Braves farm system at the time. 

Even the trades of Castro, Bleier, Scott/Sulser and Givens all reek of trades that were made to lose payroll vs actually getting good prospect returns. Now I could be wrong on these moves and maybe Elias/Sig's team just weren't good at evaluating the talent returned for these major league relievers, but it seems like he was more interested in losing payroll then actually getting good talent in return for useable relief pieces.

Then you add in this offseason when Elias was all about "take off" until he got his budget and I think Elias may be able to make the moves he wants, but it's under the tight budgetary options given to him by ownership.

I agree that the Orioles don't spend big.   Some of that may be the Angelos.  Some may be Elias if he has incentives on how much profit the team makes.

But is this a bad thing?   Its the Tampa model in some ways.   If Elias can put a 1st place team together and keep it there with a low budget he avoids bad multi year contracts.  And has we have seen there are many bad multi contracts.    

It keeps the team young.  And we know players decline as the get older.

Just sayin'.

[sportsfan8703]

31 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

No no. I was never suggesting anything about John Angelos winning a bid for Ohtani. That IMO is preposterous.

I was talking about Cohen being pressured by the New York media/market/fanbase to bid for Ohtani this offseason.

Yes John Angelos IMO is not really interested in supporting Elias in any meaningful way in regards to staffing the best team that we can on the field.

Thus my point was he (John Angelos) IMO is by far the biggest problem that the Orioles have, not the loss of Elias as the OP stated.

IMO - even if Elias stays, sustained winning with an owner as terrible as John Angelos is going to be very hard.

I agree. I think one way that Elias can sustain this with JA not spending is to keep drafting well and to win the extra ROY pick. It’s hard to do. Gunnar should be able to do that this year. That’s why I think Holliday is a realistic September option because there is built in value in calling him up so that he can get his feet wet for next year’s ROY race. Drafting at then end of the first rd is going to be difficult because it affects the rest of our draft pool. We also need Koby Perez to take us to that upper echelon of DSL prospects. 

[Bemorewins]

7 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I agree. I think one way that Elias can sustain this with JA not spending is to keep drafting well and to win the extra ROY pick. It’s hard to do. Gunnar should be able to do that this year. That’s why I think Holliday is a realistic September option because there is built in value in calling him up so that he can get his feet wet for next year’s ROY race. Drafting at then end of the first rd is going to be difficult because it affects the rest of our draft pool. We also need Koby Perez to take us to that upper echelon of DSL prospects. 

We can do ALL and I mean every single one of those things that you suggest/said. And John Angelos can and probably will find/invite a way to mess it up/sabotage something that will lead to our demise.

[foxfield]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I have this kind of half-formed vision of the O's leaving, then being replaced by an Atlantic League team, playing York and the SoMD Blue Crabs and Lew Ford's Long Island Ducks. Some celebrity or billionaire gets inspired by Ryan Reynolds and David Beckham and decides to get on the big guy buys a little team bandwagon. Starts signing some major league talent. And the new indy league Orioles and the Atlantic League become this kind of phenomenon, with their own TV show and crowds of 10s of thousands show up.

If you build it….

 

 

he will come.