Arm injury for Bautista?

[Sports Guy]

Yea Tanaka is the only guy that just kept pitching. Never understood how he could do it but he also didn’t throw as hard as Bautista.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea Tanaka is the only guy that just kept pitching. Never understood how he could do it but he also didn’t throw as hard as Bautista.

But still after two months.

[G54377]

We should have him return, and come in and soft toss lefty. They'll never see it coming.

[Moose Milligan]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Losing Bautista is obviously going to hurt no matter how we look at the situation. Can Cano, Hall, Fuji, and Perez pick up some of the slack, sure, but none of them are the guy you feel good about with a runner on 3rd and less than two outs like we did with Felix because of his ability to strike anyone out at anytime.

Without that absolutely dominant guy at the end of the game, a guy who can just mow through any middle of an order when he's got the split working, it's going to be a tougher. There's no way around it. 

We don't know the severity of the injury but does anyone know of a UCL injury for a pitcher where the guy came back after a few weeks off? Even with a "strain" I doubt we are going to see Felix the rest of the season. My worse fear is they try to rest and rehab the injury over the winter, and then next spring he comes back and it's not right and they end up doing surgery then. That means he's out all next season and probably part of 2025. 

Now I did some research and did find players who returned to pitching without surgery, but two months was the earliest they came back. Maybe someone can find something else.

Now, I have no idea the severity of the injury to the UCL for Bautista and hope it's a strain vs a tear. If it's a grade-1 sprain, I have a better feeling that he will be ready to go next spring. But anything more, I hope they go ahead and knock out the surgery before they lose him for a whole season and potentially more if they wait until next spring. 

https://www.bonsecours.com/health-care-services/orthopedics-sports-medicine/hand-wrist/conditions/ulnar-collateral-ligament-injury#:~:text=A UCL injury is classified,3 sprains — Complete ligament tear.

https://rothmanortho.com/stories/blog/ulnar-collateral-ligament-injury

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7905078/

 

Guys like Tanaka and Richards kind of seem to be an exception rather than a rule.

I'd prefer to shut down Felix now, have the surgery sometime in September, miss all of next year and hope he's ready for Opening Day 2025.  Find a legit closer in the offseason who can pick up the slack next year and hope that if he's still under contract, he and Felix can make a tandem in 2025 that's legit.

I usually try to be optimistic but these dudes that throw 100 mph consistently are destined to break down.  I'd rather stop delaying the inevitable.

[Malike]

He looks like a power hitter, I wonder if he can be a MOO bat. He can still swing a bat with a bad UCL.

[MarCakes21]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Guys like Tanaka and Richards kind of seem to be an exception rather than a rule.

I'd prefer to shut down Felix now, have the surgery sometime in September, miss all of next year and hope he's ready for Opening Day 2025.  Find a legit closer in the offseason who can pick up the slack next year and hope that if he's still under contract, he and Felix can make a tandem in 2025 that's legit.

I usually try to be optimistic but these dudes that throw 100 mph consistently are destined to break down.  I'd rather stop delaying the inevitable.

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread, but what's the difference between shutting him down now, and rehabbing him now until October to see if there's a chance we can get something out of him?  You have 15-18 months of surgery/recovery/rehab either way, so might as well see if he can push you in the playoffs.

Is there a discernible difference between rehabbing now to give it a shot, and potentially completely tearing it, or just shutting it down and having surgery tomorrow?

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread, but what's the difference between shutting him down now, and rehabbing him now until October to see if there's a chance we can get something out of him?  You have 15-18 months of surgery/recovery/rehab either way, so might as well see if he can push you in the playoffs.

Is there a discernible difference between rehabbing now to give it a shot, and potentially completely tearing it, or just shutting it down and having surgery tomorrow?

Do you think he'd be able to preform at a high level with the injury?

[Moose Milligan]

32 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread, but what's the difference between shutting him down now, and rehabbing him now until October to see if there's a chance we can get something out of him?  You have 15-18 months of surgery/recovery/rehab either way, so might as well see if he can push you in the playoffs.

Is there a discernible difference between rehabbing now to give it a shot, and potentially completely tearing it, or just shutting it down and having surgery tomorrow?

 Sure. That’s fine, too. 

[Frobby]

19 hours ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I feel like Fuji is one of those guys who's stats make him look worse than he is because when he melts down it's spectacular but you can only blow one game no matter how many runs you give up on a bad day.

Sounds like an excuse to me.  He’s made 16 appearances, and given up runs in 6 of them.  That’s not a great ratio when

you consider than any pitcher is going to give up multiple runs sometimes when he allows runs.  His 4.76 ERA feels about right to me.  

I don’t think he’s been awful, but he’s one of these guys who you just don’t know which version you’re getting when he takes the mound.  
 

[OnlyOneOriole]

9 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Losing Bautista is obviously going to hurt no matter how we look at the situation. Can Cano, Hall, Fuji, and Perez pick up some of the slack, sure, but none of them are the guy you feel good about with a runner on 3rd and less than two outs like we did with Felix because of his ability to strike anyone out at anytime.

Without that absolutely dominant guy at the end of the game, a guy who can just mow through any middle of an order when he's got the split working, it's going to be a tougher. There's no way around it. 

We don't know the severity of the injury but does anyone know of a UCL injury for a pitcher where the guy came back after a few weeks off? Even with a "strain" I doubt we are going to see Felix the rest of the season. My worse fear is they try to rest and rehab the injury over the winter, and then next spring he comes back and it's not right and they end up doing surgery then. That means he's out all next season and probably part of 2025. 

Now I did some research and did find players who returned to pitching without surgery, but two months was the earliest they came back. Maybe someone can find something else.

Now, I have no idea the severity of the injury to the UCL for Bautista and hope it's a strain vs a tear. If it's a grade-1 sprain, I have a better feeling that he will be ready to go next spring. But anything more, I hope they go ahead and knock out the surgery before they lose him for a whole season and potentially more if they wait until next spring. 

https://www.bonsecours.com/health-care-services/orthopedics-sports-medicine/hand-wrist/conditions/ulnar-collateral-ligament-injury#:~:text=A UCL injury is classified,3 sprains — Complete ligament tear.

https://rothmanortho.com/stories/blog/ulnar-collateral-ligament-injury

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7905078/

 

I am flat out saying, as someone who has a UCL tear, that throwing overhand without surgery is basically impossible.

 

It does not heal. 

[OriolesMagic83]

3 hours ago, Malike said:

He looks like a power hitter, I wonder if he can be a MOO bat. He can still swing a bat with a bad UCL.

He's the same size as Judge.  O's need to have him DH and pencil him in for 62 HR next year.

[banks703]

46 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I am flat out saying, as someone who has a UCL tear, that throwing overhand without surgery is basically impossible.

 

It does not heal. 

This is correct, kinda. The soft tissue in our elbows (specifically ligaments) are unlike any other part of the body. When they’re overstretched, as the tissue itself heals (it does actually heal) it does not shrink back to its normal length. So, the pain portion of the injury does heal as the tissue itself does heal but it does not “heal back into place” like other soft tissue in the body. It’s very strange. Almost like the body isn’t meant to use our arms in this way. lol 

[banks703]

I posted in this thread before the news was confirmed .. Felix’s response to whatever he felt was to wiggle his fingers, which at minimum is a flexor injury (probably a tear) that, with a pitcher, almost always is accompanied by the UCL tear.

If it’s me, I’m looking for someone to convince me to not have the surgery as even a strain on a 103 mph arm is catastrophic. I’d be shocked if they don’t announce that he’ll undergo surgery the minute that the swelling has dissipated enough that the imaging can show the extent of the injury.

I’d honestly prefer him to have fractured his elbow. The soft tissue in the elbow is no joke. I write this after having only recently recovered from 18 months or so of epicondylitis.  

Edited August 28, 2023 by banks703

[OnlyOneOriole]

13 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I posted in this thread before the news was confirmed .. Felix’s response to whatever he felt was to wiggle his fingers, which at minimum is a flexor injury (probably a tear) that, with a pitcher, almost always is accompanied by the UCL tear.

If it’s me, I’m looking for someone to convince me to not have the surgery as even a strain on a 103 mph arm is catastrophic. I’d be shocked if they don’t announce that he’ll undergo surgery the minute that the swelling has dissipated enough that the imaging can show the extent of the injury.

I’d honestly prefer him to have fractured his elbow. The soft tissue in the elbow is no joke. I write this after having only recently recovered from 18 months or so of epicondylitis.  

I have exactly both.  A fractured elbow (chip the size of a quarter) and a torn UCL.  The chip is just floating around in the middle of the ligaments.

 

The torn UCL is always a pain but as long as I don't throw a baseball or football throw?  It is fine.

 

i can lift weights and throw underhand.....as in I can bowl.  And bowl fine 20 games a week.  Because it is an underhand motion. 

Anything throwing over hand?

 

Impossible.  Immediate pain.  I shouldn't even say pain.  I mean shooting pain.

 

To expect Felix to throw 100 MPH in a month or so?  I think that is twilight zone stuff. 

 

Not gonna happen.

Edited August 28, 2023 by OnlyOneOriole

[OnlyOneOriole]

How do you post a pic here? 

Edited August 29, 2023 by OnlyOneOriole