Trade chips replaced in-house = Salary Relief

[MCO'sFan]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So, you would largely bring back the same team with whatever internal upgrades you make?

Yes, A team on track to win nearly 100 games doesn't need a lot of change. There a definite changes I would make but they would be to clear space for a couple prospects.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

Yes, A team on track to win nearly 100 games doesn't need a lot of change. There a definite changes I would make but they would be to clear space for a couple prospects.

So, you were in favor of what the Os did after 2012 and 2014?

[G54377]

If Santander can be in a package for say one of Seattle's SP, I'd do that. In all likelihood we are probably best off to keep him and let him walk after 2024 if that type of trade doesn't materialize. Same thing with Hays, although I think Hays is more replaceable and might have more value with an additional team controllable year.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

Yes, A team on track to win nearly 100 games doesn't need a lot of change. There a definite changes I would make but they would be to clear space for a couple prospects.

The 2014 O's won 96 games.

Basically the same team won 81 in 2015.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

So, you were in favor of what the Os did after 2012 and 2014?

What did they do different after 2011 and 2013 that they didn't do after 2012 and 2014?

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Pickles said:

What did they do different after 2011 and 2013 that they didn't do after 2012 and 2014?

Why does that matter? 

Because you catch lightning in a bottle doesn’t mean you don’t look to get better especially after a year where run differential isn’t as much on your side.

I mean, the idea of the young team helps us now because you expect improvement. Of course, we didn’t see that with Adley in his sophomore season. We saw this year that some young guys can contribute immediately and some take more time, so we can’t just assume that the youth takes a big leap and things will be fine.  It’s fair to believe that as the season goes on, you become a better team and that’s what I would usually bank on but that’s obviously not a guarantee and really, outside of this Felix injury, the Os have been pretty fortunate with injuries again this year. That’s not always going to be so fortunate, so you need some margin for error on your side.

How often do successful teams do nothing and basically bring back the same team?

Edited August 28, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

The one thing I will say about this team vs the 2014 Os is that you don’t have some weird outlier like what Steve Pearce did or have some low budget monster season like Cruz or something like that.

Now, the DC/Cano connection may not be good next year. That is definitely possible and with Felix out next year, that could bury us but outside of that, I don’t see anything that is some extreme outlier that says, we can’t expect that.

Maybe some of the pitcher peripherals catch up to some of these guys as well?  
 

I think those would be my biggest concerns, which is why my focus would be on pitching.

[wildcard]

The 2024 Orioles will not be a team that stood pat.   Its a young team that will probably get younger. Their oldest player will be gone - Gibson (35).  Hicks (3) will also probably not return because he can't stay healthy.  Givens (33) who they paid 5M is already gone.   Frazier (31) will not return.

Additionaly there are several players that will likely not be on the 40 man roster like  McKenna and Akin (out of options), Gillaspie, Flaherty who will be a FA.   So there are 8 players that likely will not return.

So how can anyone talk about standing pat when its pretty obvious that the O's have no intention of keeping all the players that they paid in 2023.   

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by wildcard

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

The 2024 Orioles will not be a team that stood pat.   Its a young team that will probably get younger. Their oldest player will be gone - Gibson (35).  Hicks (3) will also probably not return because he can't stay healthy.  Givens (33) who they paid 5M is already gone.   Frazier (31) will not return.

Additionaly there are several players that will likely not be on the 40 man roster like  McKenna and Akin (out of options), Gillaspie, Flaherty who will be a FA.   So there are 8 player that likely will not return.

So how can anyone talk about standing pat when its pretty obvious that the O's have no intention of keeping all the players that they paid in 2023.   

 

Is this an actual serious post or is this supposed to be parody?

[Pickles]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why does that matter? 

Because you catch lightning in a bottle doesn’t mean you don’t look to get better especially after a year where run differential isn’t as much on your side.

I mean, the idea of the young team helps us now because you expect improvement. Of course, we didn’t see that with Adley in his sophomore season. We saw this year that some young guys can contribute immediately and some take more time, so we can’t just assume that the youth takes a big leap and things will be fine.  It’s fair to believe that as the season goes on, you become a better team and that’s what I would usually bank on but that’s obviously not a guarantee and really, outside of this Felix injury, the Os have been pretty fortunate with injuries again this year. That’s not always going to be so fortunate, so you need some margin for error on your side.

How often do successful teams do nothing and basically bring back the same team?

Because the things that allowed them to win in 2012 and 2014 weren't big offseason moves, so citing the lack of big offseaon moves as the reason they were relatively unsuccessful in 2013 and 2015 is logically inconsistent.

They need to and will by necessity make moves this offseason.  I would bet they are not nearly as sweeping as you would like.  But guess what?  You've been calling for sweeping moves for quite a while now, and they have been very successful not doing that.

 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Because the things that allowed them to win in 2012 and 2014 weren't big offseason moves, so citing the lack of big offseaon moves as the reason they were relatively unsuccessful in 2013 and 2015 is logically inconsistent.

They need to and will by necessity make moves this offseason.  I would bet they are not nearly as sweeping as you would like.  But guess what?  You've been calling for sweeping moves for quite a while now, and they have been very successful not doing that.

 

Well maybe if they did more heading into 2022 like I wanted they make the playoffs.  Maybe if they brought up Adley in 2021, they would have been much better in 2022? Maybe if they had add a better starter and another reliever before this season started(instead of waiting until the deadline), they would be an even better team with more of a margin for error now.  Maybe they would be a team better positioned to win in Oct. you never know.

 

 

That said, I’m not calling for sweeping changes, so that is just a lie and, per usual, a complete mischaracterization of what I’m saying.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Sports Guy

[MCO'sFan]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So, you were in favor of what the Os did after 2012 and 2014?

I think the franchise is in very different places then/now. Those were much more veteran teams and the player development stunk. There is no way of knowing how things would have turned out if they had done things differently. May have been better, may have been worse.

[wildcard]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Is this an actual serious post or is this supposed to be parody?

Its a clear statement that the O's will not stand pat going into 2024.

[MCO'sFan]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The 2014 O's won 96 games.

Basically the same team won 81 in 2015.

yep. and we all know how the 17 team turned out. 

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well maybe if they did more heading into 2022 like I wanted they make the playoffs.  Maybe if they brought up Adley in 2021, they would have been much better in 2022? Maybe if they had add a better starter and another reliever before this season started(instead of waiting until the deadline), they would be an even better team with more of a margin for error now.  Maybe they would be a team better positioned to win in Oct. you never know.

 

 

That said, I’m not calling for sweeping changes, so that is just a lie and, per usual, a complete mischaracterization of what I’m saying.

Well, tbh, it's hard to nail down exactly what you're saying.

But you seem to be calling for them to do MORE than either what you expect them to do, or what others are expecting them to do.