Adam Frazier should not play in the field

[Three Run Homer]

Frazier is not a good second baseman any more and it cost the O'a big time tonight.  Westburg probably catches the pop up by Naylor in the 8th.   He probably gets to the ground ball by Giminez in the 8th that went for a single.  He might even have gotten to Ramirez' RBI single early in the game.  

I'm fine with Frazier pinch hitting depending on the matchup and situation, but he is getting too many starts at 2B.  Westburg is a world-class defender at 2B.  He should be out there most or all of the time.  

[Malike]

6 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

Frazier is not a good second baseman any more and it cost the O'a big time tonight.  Westburg probably catches the pop up by Naylor in the 8th.   He probably gets to the ground ball by Giminez in the 8th that went for a single.  He might even have gotten to Ramirez' RBI single early in the game.  

I'm fine with Frazier pinch hitting depending on the matchup and situation, but he is getting too many starts at 2B.  Westburg is a world-class defender at 2B.  He should be out there most or all of the time.  

Frazier has been very bad this year at 2B, but last year he was at 6 OAA there, Jordan Westburg is at 0 OAA, world class hyperbole I assume?

[forphase1]

20 minutes ago, Malike said:

Frazier has been very bad this year at 2B, but last year he was at 6 OAA there, Jordan Westburg is at 0 OAA, world class hyperbole I assume?

World class in comparison to Frazier maybe.  I'd classify Westburg as solid.  Not great or flashy,  but solid.  Frazier is bad and along with being an average at best hitter (I know,  I know he has the 'clutch' gene,  but I guess he left it home in the 9th tonight) he is starting way too much.   The defense is killing us. 

[Malike]

1 minute ago, forphase1 said:

World class in comparison to Frazier maybe.  I'd classify Westburg as solid.  Not great or flashy,  but solid.  Frazier is bad and along with being an average at best hitter (I know,  I know he has the 'clutch' gene,  but I guess he left it home in the 9th tonight) he is starting way too much.   The defense is killing us. 

I never said he isn't starting too much, but calling a guy with 284 innings with 0 OAA and 0 RAA a world-class defender is hyperbole at it's finest. His range is fine, at least, but he's not making any outs above average. Frazier is much worse. This year.

[Three Run Homer]

26 minutes ago, Malike said:

Frazier has been very bad this year at 2B, but last year he was at 6 OAA there, Jordan Westburg is at 0 OAA, world class hyperbole I assume?

Are you reading stats or are you watching the games?  Westburg has made plays this year that I've never seen a 2B make.  He is outstanding in the field.  

[Malike]

Just now, Three Run Homer said:

Are you reading stats or are you watching the games?  Westburg has made plays this year that I've never seen a 2B make.  He is outstanding in the field.  

Ah, you should have said that in your opening post. I never would have replied.

[scarey1999]

I’m not disagreeing but what was the catch probability on the RF pop fly hit? I’m guessing it was fairly low, like 5% or less.  Also didn’t help that Hicks was positioned well into the gap defensively and had all but zero chance to get to that ball. 

It was a lucky hit and about as poorly placed ball you could have, unless you’re a CLE fan. 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

Frazier has been very bad this year at 2B, but last year he was at 6 OAA there, Jordan Westburg is at 0 OAA, world class hyperbole I assume?

I'm seeing Westburg at 3 OAA, tied with Gunnar for 2nd on the team. We've seen him make tougher plays than that ball Frazier dropped.

[Malike]

37 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I'm seeing Westburg at 3 OAA, tied with Gunnar for 2nd on the team. We've seen him make tougher plays than that ball Frazier dropped.

Sure, but you're looking at his 3B playtime. Frazier doesn't play 3B so I thought it's only fair to compare the OAA at 2B which is 0.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Malike

[e16bball]

I’m not disagreeing with what appears to be one of the main contentions here, which is that Westburg’s combination of offense and defense (and future potential) warrants him playing almost every day at this point. 

But one of Urias, Mateo, and Frazier also has to play every day. There’s only two of Henderson and Westburg, and the rules seem to insist that we play three non-1B infielders at a time. 

The announcers were speculating yesterday that Urias might be nicked up in some way, perhaps leading to the string of really bad, really uncharacteristic defensive mistakes he’s made over the last week or so. If that’s the case, then your only options at present are to play banged up Urias (who has been a big problem defensively) or to choose between Mateo and Frazier. 

I’m actually fine with Mateo playing more, but the way folks rail against him ever starting against a RHP (and frankly, often even against LHPs), it sorta seems like Hyde is damned no matter which way he goes. I just don’t think it’s realistic to say that Frazier should never play, given the realities of the roster right now.

[Hallas]

4 hours ago, Malike said:

Frazier has been very bad this year at 2B, but last year he was at 6 OAA there, Jordan Westburg is at 0 OAA, world class hyperbole I assume?

Westburg is still positive overall as a defender per statcast OAA, and it's really hard to draw conclusions from 1/7 of a season of defensive stats.  He sure looks pretty good there though, and this isn't the first time this year that Frazier's unclutch defense has cost us games.  He is unquestionably the weakest link on defense.

[Jagwar]

7 hours ago, Three Run Homer said:

Are you reading stats or are you watching the games?  Westburg has made plays this year that I've never seen a 2B make.  He is outstanding in the field.  

Guess you never watched Roberto Alomar. 

[Brian88]

7 hours ago, scarey1999 said:

I’m not disagreeing but what was the catch probability on the RF pop fly hit? I’m guessing it was fairly low, like 5% or less.  Also didn’t help that Hicks was positioned well into the gap defensively and had all but zero chance to get to that ball. 

It was a lucky hit and about as poorly placed ball you could have, unless you’re a CLE fan. 

It also didn’t help that Hicks casually jogged for the ball. Hicks didn’t have to go much further than Frazier did to get to it and didn’t even come close.

[Aristotelian]

27 minutes ago, Brian88 said:

It also didn’t help that Hicks casually jogged for the ball. Hicks didn’t have to go much further than Frazier did to get to it and didn’t even come close.

Yeah seemed like that really should have been Hicks's ball.

[Frobby]

38 minutes ago, Brian88 said:

It also didn’t help that Hicks casually jogged for the ball. Hicks didn’t have to go much further than Frazier did to get to it and didn’t even come close.

That play was on Hicks in my opinion, and the opinion of a friend with whom I was texting at the time.  That ball should easily have been in his range, and he had a much better shot at making a throw from his position than Frazier, who had no shot at a throw.