Cease vs everyone else

[interloper]

Just now, Pat Kelly said:

Agree with this.  Elias does need to determine how to acquire the quality SP arm that is needed.  One of the biggest mistakes you can make (applies to any business) is failure to invest in success and growth.   It’s fine to cut costs and limit big swings if the business/product is years away strip things down and start over.  This is not where the Os are.  Sometimes you need to “overpay” if market demands that - Elias has to prove he can do more than acquire players cheaply, with limited risk.  This is the job of the GM - he has done 75-80% exceptionally well arguably better than any other GM.  But this is about winning championships now - hopefully he gets it. 

And if teams aren't trading their big name guys, he's going to do what he normally does, which is find value/talent in places people aren't looking. And we'll whine about it, until it ends up working out, which it usually does.

But people still think GMs can go out and force teams to give them their assets. Doesn't work like that man. The market is what it is, so Elias will go his usual route of finding undervalued guys. 

[RVAOsFan]

I don't understand why we don't just go out and sign one of the top free agent starters to a multi year deal and defer all of the money for 10 years down the road like the Dodgers have been doing.  In 10 years when it comes time to make the first payment JA and his family will have sold the team anyway who cares. 

I understand this has ramifications for the sale of the team and its easier said than done.  But seriously if we win a World Series or two is a prospective buyer really going to be worried about some future payroll?

[RZNJ]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think everyone here needs to 100% chill when it comes to "Well, Elias said..."

What Elias says doesn't mean anything.  It means absolutely nothing.  

Or they should read what he actually said.

[RZNJ]

18 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think everyone here needs to 100% chill when it comes to "Well, Elias said..."

What Elias says doesn't mean anything.  It means absolutely nothing.  

Well, this meant something.

We’re looking. I can’t predict what outcome we get this winter, but we’re looking. I think having somebody who has closed before would be really nice,” Elias said. “We really want to get another back-end reliever, and maybe that guy is the closer.”

[RZNJ]

21 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think everyone here needs to 100% chill when it comes to "Well, Elias said..."

What Elias says doesn't mean anything.  It means absolutely nothing.  

This one is interesting.

There are a lot of teams going for it this offseason, and so I think saying we have to acquire an ace this winter is setting ourselves up for possible disappointment,” Elias said.

I’m being a little more broad with that, because I think our team could just benefit from an upgrade to our rotation,” Elias said. “Somebody that projects for the front half of the rotation would be wonderful.”

Edited January 9 by RZNJ

[24fps]

23 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

I’ve come to hate this thread.

I think it's getting even more fascinating.  Reality has been altered; people are drawing conclusions from what has always been conjecture left and right.  War was declared (not sure by whom) on a White Sox message board that, in truth, is not so different from the OH once you ignore the uniforms.  There's even been hit-and-run insider trolling by some random guy with a few very peculiar notions about building online cred.

Best of all, spring training is still over a month away so who knows what other entertainment lies in store.

[Hank Scorpio]

This thread needs to ..... cease. 

Did someone make that joke on page 124?

Edited January 9 by Hank Scorpio

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, dystopia said:

I don't know about you but I find that shocking. Are you sure that's correct?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=p&lg=MLB&year=2023

Click on pitching role game level, click on “as starting pitcher,” then sort by IP.

O’s starters threw 878.1 innings last year.  Tops were the Mariners at 901.1.  The median was 840.1.   The low was the Giants at 729.1.  

[sportsfan8703]

15 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This one is interesting.

There are a lot of teams going for it this offseason, and so I think saying we have to acquire an ace this winter is setting ourselves up for possible disappointment,” Elias said.

I’m being a little more broad with that, because I think our team could just benefit from an upgrade to our rotation,” Elias said. “Somebody that projects for the front half of the rotation would be wonderful.”

Great find. However, the teams in our division didn’t go for it. 

NYY - traded for Soto, but gave up a ton of pitching. Does their bullpen take a step back now, and they really can’t afford injuries in the rotation. They also don’t want Montgomery for whatever reason. They missed out on the big FA SP that they wanted. Added Verdugo.  Lost Bader.  Added Graham.

TOR - didn’t get Ohtani. Ryu and Hicks are still FAs. Signed kiermaier. Chapman is still a FA. Didn’t get Bellinger. Signed IKF.  Belt is a FA.

TB - they’ve sold. Glasnow. Raley. Margot. Wander is done. Injuries to their rotation. Stephenson is a FA. 

BOS - signed Giolito. Traded Verdugo.  Traded Sale. Acquired Grissom.  Paxton is a FA.

The Dodgers having a huge offseason really helped us. They kept Ohtani off of Toronto and Yamamota from NYY.

Imanaga going to the Mets or SF would be huge. Snell going to anywhere but an AL East team would be huge. I don’t think the NYY or BOS want Stroman. So that only leaves Montgomery. 

Edited January 9 by sportsfan8703

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Great find. However, the teams in our division didn’t go for it. 

NYY - traded for Soto, but gave up a ton of pitching. Does their bullpen take a step back now, and they really can’t afford injuries in the rotation. They also don’t want Montgomery for whatever reason. They missed out on the big FA SP that they wanted. Added Verdugo.  Lost Bader.  Added Graham.

TOR - didn’t get Ohtani. Ryu and Hicks are still FAs. Signed kiermaier. Chapman is still a FA. Didn’t get Bellinger. Signed IKF.  Belt is a FA.

TB - they’ve sold. Glasnow. Raley. Margot. Wander is done. Injuries to their rotation. Stephenson is a FA. 

BOS - signed Giolito. Traded Verdugo.  Traded Sale. Acquired Grissom.  Paxton is a FA.

The Dodgers having a huge offseason really helped us. They kept Ohtani off of Toronto and Yamamota from NYY.

I have no idea what relation your post has to the post of mine that you quoted.

[sportsfan8703]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I have no idea what relation your post has to the post of mine that you quoted.

Because the quote said that a lot of teams are going for it. They haven’t. That’s helped us. 

But just moving forward. Look I’m going to agree with you. A package of Ortiz, Beavers, and McDermott is a lot to give up for Cease. Getz is a fool for not taking it. 

[Moose Milligan]

22 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Well, this meant something.

We’re looking. I can’t predict what outcome we get this winter, but we’re looking. I think having somebody who has closed before would be really nice,” Elias said. “We really want to get another back-end reliever, and maybe that guy is the closer.”

If we didn't get Kimbrel, did it mean anything?

I mean, this quote is just stating the obvious.  Everyone knows Bautista is out of the year, everyone knows that they'd like to get another back end reliever that could possibly close.  

20 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This one is interesting.

There are a lot of teams going for it this offseason, and so I think saying we have to acquire an ace this winter is setting ourselves up for possible disappointment,” Elias said.

I’m being a little more broad with that, because I think our team could just benefit from an upgrade to our rotation,” Elias said. “Somebody that projects for the front half of the rotation would be wonderful.”

I don't find it interesting.

[RZNJ]

A WS fan who gets it.

 

Quote

striker

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Posted 1 hour ago

I'd take Orioles players over Jones as a headliner 7 days a week. Mayo, Westburg, Kjerstad, Cowser, Norby, Ortiz, Beavers have all succeeded in AA and/or AAA, so much easier to project. I also think that's why you can't compare it to the Red/Castillo trade. It took both Marte/Arroyo because they were A/A+ and therefore came with more risk.

 

Jones had a .787 OPS in A+. Struckout 30% of the time. 9% BB rate, which is good, but could change when he gets to a higher level. Seems "fine" but just doesn't make it "move" like the Orioles prospects do.

I mean, if "you" are ok with Jones as a headliner, would you be ok with Beavers has a headliner? They are the same age and progression schedule and Beavers number blow Jones out of the water.

Beaver+Norby+Povich >> anything Yankees could offer.

Edited January 9 by RZNJ

[Sports Guy]

39 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Because the quote said that a lot of teams are going for it. They haven’t. That’s helped us. 

But just moving forward. Look I’m going to agree with you. A package of Ortiz, Beavers, and McDermott is a lot to give up for Cease. Getz is a fool for not taking it. 

No he’s not 

[MCO'sFan]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Because the quote said that a lot of teams are going for it. They haven’t. That’s helped us. 

But just moving forward. Look I’m going to agree with you. A package of Ortiz, Beavers, and McDermott is a lot to give up for Cease. Getz is a fool for not taking it. 

He is not a fool until the best offer is rescinded. January 9th is not some kind of deadline for anything. He is being patient and trying to get what he thinks is the best deal. We don't know what the O's or any other team has offered except for "reports and sources" which may or may not be accurate. BTW, I don't even like Cease that much. He could revert back to his near Cy Young year or he could continue to slide. It is probably even money at this point at best. If they are going to expend that much prospect capital and years of control then I'd like someone who doesn't need to reclaim his best year. He has been a 3-5 guy than he's been a 1-3 guy.