Cease vs everyone else

[Roll Tide]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

Show examples of who is saying that’s what the team should do.  I can’t think of anyone saying that.  

I’d like to see us sign a guy that’s not Bottom of the bargain bin to prove that Elias has the authority to do it. This year he needs to close a deal IMO. I don’t want to hear how they were involved with tons of guys but couldn’t get the deal done. This team has a core that should be attractive to a free agent pitcher. The wall provides assurances that the dimensions won’t kill their career, and we have a good defensive group. Money is the only thing that will prevent a deal getting done. I’m not suggesting we should bid against ourselves.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Roll Tide

[waroriole]

6 hours ago, Pickles said:

So?

Did you not want to tender one of them?  They both clearly should have been tendered imo.

 

A case can be made to non tender Mateo. I’m not sure anyone would trade for him with a 3M price tag this year. A team like the Orioles can’t afford to pay a PR 3M, so you find Hyder playing him in situations where Ortiz should be in. 
 

I guess you tender him if it’s possible Ortiz is traded. I’ve just seen nothing from Elias that says he has the will to trade his prospect stash. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

A case can be made to non tender Mateo. I’m not sure anyone would trade for him with a 3M price tag this year. A team like the Orioles can’t afford to pay a PR 3M, so you find Hyder playing him in situations where Ortiz should be in. 
 

I guess you tender him if it’s possible Ortiz is traded. I’ve just seen nothing from Elias that says he has the will to trade his prospect stash. 

The Braves just traded Nicky Lopez who will probably make more money.

You really are only paying him 2M because the minimum salary is 750ishK and you obviously would have at least that amount tied up into that spot.  It’s why they tendered everyone. Some of these guys are barely making more than the league minimum.

They can easily trade Mateo.

[Sports Guy]

 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

I’d like to see us sign a guy that’s not Bottom of the bargain bin to prove that Elias has the authority to do it. This year he needs to close a deal IMO. I don’t want to hear how they were involved with tons of guys but couldn’t get the deal done. 

To me, you either get a deal done or you don’t.  I couldn’t care less about coming close, or “being active.”

Saying that, Elias strikes me as a guy who goes to an auction with a firm idea of what he’s willing to bid for the items he wants, and if someone outbids him, he’s not going to get auction fever and bid more than he’d planned in advance.  So he’s probably always going to miss out on most of his targets, but that trait may still serve him well in the long run. 

[Sports Guy]

Bowden thinks it will take 2 top 10 prospects and another in the 15-20 range to get him.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Bowden thinks it will take 2 top 10 prospects and another in the 15-20 range to get him.

We are talking about a team’s top 10 and 20, not MLB’s, correct?

I think Bowden is right, for once.  

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We are talking about a team’s top 10 and 20, not MLB’s, correct?

I think Bowden is right, for once.  

Yes that’s correct.

The thing is, how high does that first prospect have to be and does that vary by lists?

For example, Norby and Povich are top 10 prospects for most teams. You can argue that they are top 10 for us but it’s not definitive, whereas it would be definitive for other teams.

[24fps]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

 

It seem that it's become an article of faith that Orioles fans are "terrified" of trading Kjerstad and/or Cowser.  In case you haven't heard, Elias is a "prospect-hugger" too.

[Frobby]

Trading is an auction just like free agency is.  We won’t get Cease (or whoever) unless we offer more value than all the other teams who want to trade for him.  I personally don’t believe we will get him for a package that doesn’t include either Kjerstad or Cowser unless we’re packaging 3-4 top 10 guys lower on our list. 

[baltfan]

30 minutes ago, 24fps said:

It seem that it's become an article of faith that Orioles fans are "terrified" of trading Kjerstad and/or Cowser.  In case you haven't heard, Elias is a "prospect-hugger" too.

I wouldn't trade either as part of a Cease deal.  The Orioles have more than enough depth so that a team can go quantity or quality and still justify it as maybe being more likely to succeed.  

[baltfan]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Trading is an auction just like free agency is.  We won’t get Cease (or whoever) unless we offer more value than all the other teams who want to trade for him.  I personally don’t believe we will get him for a package that doesn’t include either Kjerstad or Cowser unless we’re packaging 3-4 top 10 guys lower on our list. 

Cease has had one great year and is coming off a down year.  You don't trade one of Kjerstad or Cowser unless they are a sure thing.  I am fine with passing if necessary.

[24fps]

1 hour ago, baltfan said:

I wouldn't trade either as part of a Cease deal.  The Orioles have more than enough depth so that a team can go quantity or quality and still justify it as maybe being more likely to succeed.  

At this particular moment, the O's have a lot of flexibility to go just about any way they want.  Speaking for myself, I don't blame Elias one bit for trying to extract as much value as possible out of any trade.  I also think that a slight (emphasis slight) overpay to get the right starter and/or reliever won't be the end of the world.

[RZNJ]

Let the White Sox go to the Dodgers.  Their #1 prospect just turned 26 and his best position is 1B.  Their #2 prospect hit .228 in A+ as a 22 yo and may or may not stick at catcher.  Their #3 gave up 46 hits in 31 IP with a 9 ERA and just turned 25.

We can give them a 25 yo plus, plus fielder (Ortiz) at SS or 2B who tore up AAA this year.  No need to include Cowser or Kjerstad.  Ortiz should be the main piece and go from there.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Trading is an auction just like free agency is.  We won’t get Cease (or whoever) unless we offer more value than all the other teams who want to trade for him.  I personally don’t believe we will get him for a package that doesn’t include either Kjerstad or Cowser unless we’re packaging 3-4 top 10 guys lower on our list. 

Norby, Stowers, Povich, Kremer and Sosa/Urias  for Cease and Kopech. 
 

You doing that?  Are they?