Cease vs everyone else

[Rustbelt]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Despite that wildness, he has excellent statcast numbers, a career 4.01 ERA, a 3.79 xERA last year, lots of missed bats, etc…

He has had some durability issues and obviously the command and control is an issue but we have to hope the Os can fix that at least somewhat.  Just get that walk rate under 4 or so.

Question then is how is Cabrera different from DL Hall?

[wildbillhiccup]

28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ortiz would be the guy.

Yep, Ortiz for one of their young SPs (other than Luzardo or Perez) would probably make a lot of sense for both clubs. I'd still rather try to sell them on Santander though. The Marlins seem to have an affinity for for poor fielding players that hit homeruns. Soler (gone), Burger, J.Bell, etc. 

[wildbillhiccup]

3 minutes ago, Rustbelt said:

Question then is how is Cabrera different from DL Hall?

I'd put Cabrera a notch ahead. He's had more experience at the MLB level and has had some success as a starter. I get you're point though. They are both raw talents. 

[wildbillhiccup]

23 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

If I’m the Marlins, I want Ortiz and Kjerstad in any deal for Luzardo or Garrett.    They’ll ask for Mayo.  Josh Bell is their 1B.  Jesus Sanchez is fine in RF.   Both players help them now and the future.   I doubt they want 1 year of Santander along with his 12M salary.

Then you can throw in Horvath and Luis DeLeon.   
 

 

 

I don't think Luzardo and Garrett are interchangeable names in terms of trade value. 

[TommyPickles]

I'd love to add a lefty starting pitcher, so I think I'd target Luzardo or Garrett.

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Rustbelt said:

Question then is how is Cabrera different from DL Hall?

Well, EC has been a successful ML starter and been available to throw innings.  But I do think Hall could be what he has been IF he can stay healthy and actually pitch.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Yep, Ortiz for one of their young SPs (other than Luzardo or Perez) would probably make a lot of sense for both clubs. I'd still rather try to sell them on Santander though. The Marlins seem to have an affinity for for poor fielding players that hit homeruns. Soler (gone), Burger, J.Bell, etc. 

Santander probably costs too much.  Now, maybe Mountcastle makes sense but if we are doing a deal with them, a SS is going to have to be going back to them. 

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Santander probably costs too much.  Now, maybe Mountcastle makes sense but if we are doing a deal with them, a SS is going to have to be going back to them. 

If the Marlins view Bell as more of a DH then Mountcastle makes a lot of sense. And I doubt that we would have to part with much more; at least not for Cabrera. That said, I think it's highly unlikely that Elias trades Mountcastle. I hope I'm wrong because if he can use ANY of the veterans to get young MLB ready pitching that would be my preferred move. 

[Rustbelt]

10 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I'd put Cabrera a notch ahead. He's had more experience at the MLB level and has had some success as a starter. I get you're point though. They are both raw talents. 

DL Hall has less than 1 year of ML experience but definitely showed improvement in control even if as relief pitcher. Cabrera has no option, and walk rate got slightly worse last year.  I would think DL Hall would be just as good of a candidate as Cabrera for the rotation. 

[Roll Tide]

22 minutes ago, Rustbelt said:

DL Hall has less than 1 year of ML experience but definitely showed improvement in control even if as relief pitcher. Cabrera has no option, and walk rate got slightly worse last year.  I would think DL Hall would be just as good of a candidate as Cabrera for the rotation. 

As a starter in the minors Hall struck out a bunch but was also hittable. He has trouble reaching 5 innings.  My general belief is that he doesnt have to worry about his secondary arsenal in his current role. And focusing on his main offerings he’s able to focus on his plus pitches. I’m not sure if that’s been the difference but it makes sense. I think the same could be said for Jorge Lopez when he was moved from the rotation to the pen

[CaptainRedbeard]

Something around Ortiz for Cabrera would be a good deal at this stage of the offseason even if you don’t love Cabrera. I’m not a huge Cabrera fan, but they’re just better off with another talented SP arm in the mix than another IF.

Cabrera is also still pre-arb so they could still sign Paxton or whoever, and then can much more comfortably plan on Hall and Wells being RP. If all 6 SPs are healthy at the end of ST you can stick one in the pen, or Kremer still has options (unfortunately Cabrera does not). 

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I don't think Luzardo and Garrett are interchangeable names in terms of trade value. 

Garrett has two more years of service time but I think Luzardo is seen as the better talent.   You think Garrett has more value?

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I don't think Luzardo and Garrett are interchangeable names in terms of trade value. 

I know you’re not a fan of the trade sim. I think it only has limited value. Anyway, they think Luzardo is worth 7ish points more 65 to 57.7

[wildbillhiccup]

52 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Garrett has two more years of service time but I think Luzardo is seen as the better talent.   You think Garrett has more value?

53 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I know you’re not a fan of the trade sim. I think it only has limited value. Anyway, they think Luzardo is worth 7ish points more 65 to 57.7

 I think most teams would value Luzardo more, even with the difference in service time. I just think they're on different levels in terms of talent. If we're going the lefty route I think we'd be better off targeting Trevor Rogers (if he's healthy). He's the same age as Garrett and would probably be significantly cheaper. And I'm not sure Garrett is significantly better than he is. 

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

 I think most teams would value Luzardo more, even with the difference in service time. I just think they're on different levels in terms of talent. If we're going the lefty route I think we'd be better off targeting Trevor Rogers (if he's healthy). He's the same age as Garrett and would probably be significantly cheaper. And I'm not sure Garrett is significantly better than he is. 

Rogers is a big gamble in terms of both durability and productivity.   The starter needed this year should be more of a certainty to actually help.