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Santander for Bieber

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By Sports Guy
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Santander for Bieber  

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  1. 1. Would you trade Santander for Shane Bieber?

    • Yes
      53
    • No
      33

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sportsfan8703
sportsfan8703

I think we're better off with... Bradish, Grayson, Means, Kremer, Gibson/Wells/Hall/Irvin + Santander  than.... Bradish, Grayson, Means, Bieber, Kremer w/o Santander

Frobby
Frobby

Look, no disrespect to Santander intended, but he’s a 109 OPS+ hitter for his career, who’s been at 120 and 121 the last two years.   I can’t say Kjerstad will top 120 in his first year, but he might,

forphase1
forphase1

Just to be clear,  only once in his career has Santander had a .800 OPS or better.   It is possible?  Of course it's possible.   Is it so probable that a team with WS aspirations can write it in ink? 

interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

Posted
Posted (edited)

I voted no but it's close. I just think it's tough removing an experienced 30 home run bat from the lineup. It's a significantly worse lineup without Santander, and it puts a lot of pressure on rookies Kjerstad and/or Cowser to perform as a replacement right now for a WS-hunting team. Santander is also a highly underrated clubhouse guy and presence, IMO. 

Not to mention Bieber missed time with elbow inflammation last year, hence only ~120 IP. That adds some additional risk. 

I think we can supplement the rotation similarly without giving up an integral part of the ML lineup. We should be focusing on trading from the prospect pool. Or, you know, just signing E-Rod. 

Edited by interloper
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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Interesting that Bieber doesn’t have great statcast numbers but he hasn’t had good statcast numbers any year.

Looking at this trade in a vacuum, I think you have to say yes. You get an upgrade at starter and you open up a spot in the lineup that is needed.

I can see saying no if you look at this outside a vacuum but one of my goals this offseason would be to trade at least one of Santander or Mountcastle. 

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sportsfan8703 Hangout Grand Counsel

sportsfan8703

Posted
Posted

Nope.  The tweet for this is hilarious.  Gorman has a bunch of control left, and Santa has only one year.  So I don't see how those are even comparable players for the Guardians to get back.  If we're looking to trade for a one year SP then I'd rather us target Jose Quintana.  Quintana would only cost prospects and not our MOO SH bat.  

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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Posted

I would be apathetically ambivalent on this deal.

I like Santander, but I don't recognize him as a core piece of this team in 3-4 years from now.  Bieber's K rate has dwindled, his WHIP has crept up.  The one thing I like about him though is that his ERA is always close to his FIP.  And he was at 3.80 last year, we could have used that.

It would also depend if Bieber was our only rotation add for the offseason, too.

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Interesting that Bieber doesn’t have great statcast numbers but he hasn’t had good statcast numbers any year.

Looking at this trade in a vacuum, I think you have to say yes. You get an upgrade at starter and you open up a spot in the lineup that is needed.

I can see saying no if you look at this outside a vacuum but one of my goals this offseason would be to trade at least one of Santander or Mountcastle. 

Very different players and impacts to the lineup. Mountcastle IMO is a lot more replaceable than Santander. Mounty should only play vs LHP while Santander is pretty good on both sides of the plate and should play as much as possible, even with Kjerstad on the 26-man. 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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I’d want to do as much due diligence as possible about Bieber’s health, but if I got comfortable on that front, then this is a trade we should make.  Santander’s replacements are ready and despite Bieber’s declining K rate etc. he’s been a consistently above average starter.   

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Very different players and impacts to the lineup. Mountcastle IMO is a lot more replaceable than Santander. Mounty should only play vs LHP while Santander is pretty good on both sides of the plate and should play as much as possible, even with Kjerstad on the 26-man. 

The roster spot that trading either opens up is similar and that’s what is important.

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The roster spot that trading either opens up is similar and that’s what is important.

Sure. Like I said I think it's close. I just view Santander as a true MOO bat, of which there is only one other one on the roster in Henderson. He strikes me as a guy we'd want in a playoff run, and as much as I love Kjerstad (and I love Kjerstad), I don't think he's a 1-for-1 replacement for Santander at this stage. 

More than anything, I just think we can address the pitching elsewhere. Bieber is a health risk, too. Would I hate the trade, no, but it's not automatic for me. 

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TommyPickles Major Leaguer

TommyPickles

Posted
Posted

Man. Tough call, because I'm someone who believes the Os should keep Santander for 2024. I'd even be down with him playing a lot more first base. The playoffs showed us the importance of veteran sluggers...

That said, I think I'd bite my lip and say yes.

Bradish, Grayson, Means, Bieber, Kremer is a legit rotation.

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TommyPickles said:

The playoffs showed us the importance of veteran sluggers...

 

This. I completely agree that guys like Santander just thrive in the playoffs. We need experience in the lineup - and not just scrap heap veteran experience - guys who actually perform at a high level. 

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