Bloomberg: Carlyle Group/David Rubenstein In Talks To Purchase Orioles

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Good post.  In paragraphs 3, 4 and 5, you mean Rubenstein, not Bloomberg.  Though if Bloomberg wanted to buy the team, that would be good, too.

Yeah, I thought about that a little while ago and was like, "I think I used the wrong name." I went back and corrected myself.

[ThomasTomasz]

5 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

As much as I'd not like to agree with @Billy F-Face3about a lot of things, I do agree with his above post that JA can take credit for hiring Elias...and allowing Elias to do pretty much everything he wanted to do, especially establishing an international scouting presence which is something that didn't exist under his dad.

If anyone wants to be honest here (I question that sometimes) when it comes to JA, it's usually something like "Yeah, he hired Elias, whatever," and they move on to whatever issue JA has ensnared himself in at the moment, probably something like giving a stupid interview like he did time and time again throughout 2023.  

But if Elias is one of the best things that's happened to this franchise, then JA needs to be recognized for hiring him.  And retaining him thus far.  Hiring and retaining good people isn't easy in any industry, especially in one like Major League Baseball.  @Bemorewinsyou can't look at the last two seasons we've had, the amount of talent we have in the system and say that he's run this franchise into the ground.  That's being intentionally obtuse.

I get it, a lot of people here are hammers and all they see is nails, especially when it comes to all things Angelos.  It's easy to bash them at every given turn because they've given us a lot of material to work with over the years but with JA it hasn't all been bad.  He nailed the most important part of his stewardship of the franchise, everyone should be able to agree on that.

If that makes me sound like some Angelos apologist as I'm sure @Tony-OHwill label me, well, so be it.  I've been called worse.  But I don't think I wrote any lies above.

That doesn't mean I don't think that JA is a tone deaf trouser-snake cheapskate, I absolutely do think those things.  He's terrible in front of the media, a microphone and a camera are his worst enemies.  His cries about having to raise prices if they want to spend money on talent are stupid.  He does strike me as someone who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, which is obnoxious.  While I give him a lot of credit for hiring Elias, I am absolutely thrilled at the prospect of the Orioles being sold and the Angelos family going away like a fart in the wind.

110% correct.  If I could react to posts here, this deserves all of it.  

Let’s not forget that PA never, in a million years, would have gotten involved in the international market to the extent we did.  He basically ignored that 20% of rosters were constructed with players from international free agency, but he didn’t want to pursue “child labor” and pay them expensive bonuses. 

Let’s not forget that we had an almost zilch analytics department, because we thought our development system that harkened back to players from the “Oriole Way” was enough.  

Oh, and that development system was stuck in the stone age, again, with people whose major qualification was that they were part of the “Oriole Way” from years, sometimes even decades, ago.  

Those fixes to the international free agency, analytics and front office/player development absolutely cost us more money.  But that we can’t meet in the middle between last years payroll and 2016/17 is blatantly absurd.  It did not cost us that much per year to do what we did, and hell, those are things that all needed to be done anyway to bring us up to par with other organizations.  In five years, we’ve now exceeded them.  

That’s where I am having trouble now.  And if the Angelos family wants to sell, I’ll see them out and not bat an eye.  But John made a huge difference with Mike Elias.  

[TradeAngelos]

My confidence in John Angelos being able to close a multi billion dollar deal without screwing it up in some way shape or form is basically zero. Can't even get a lease signed, but is going to go through the process of the sale without messing it up? Wake me up when it is done I'll be the first in line to buy tickets. Until then it is just another rumor. 

[TradeAngelos]

1 hour ago, ThomasTomasz said:

110% correct.  If I could react to posts here, this deserves all of it.  

Let’s not forget that PA never, in a million years, would have gotten involved in the international market to the extent we did.  He basically ignored that 20% of rosters were constructed with players from international free agency, but he didn’t want to pursue “child labor” and pay them expensive bonuses. 

Let’s not forget that we had an almost zilch analytics department, because we thought our development system that harkened back to players from the “Oriole Way” was enough.  

Oh, and that development system was stuck in the stone age, again, with people whose major qualification was that they were part of the “Oriole Way” from years, sometimes even decades, ago.  

Those fixes to the international free agency, analytics and front office/player development absolutely cost us more money.  But that we can’t meet in the middle between last years payroll and 2016/17 is blatantly absurd.  It did not cost us that much per year to do what we did, and hell, those are things that all needed to be done anyway to bring us up to par with other organizations.  In five years, we’ve now exceeded them.  

That’s where I am having trouble now.  And if the Angelos family wants to sell, I’ll see them out and not bat an eye.  But John made a huge difference with Mike Elias.  

These "fixes" are literally just basic SOP that every team in MLB has. There is nothing groundbreaking about international investment, an analytics dept, or developing talent. 

[Sports Guy]

Multiple things can be true.

We can all appreciate that JA brought in Elias and allowed him to do so many things that his dad wouldn’t do.

We can also relish in the idea of him and this family selling and being as far away as possible because under this ownership family, the organization has largely been a disaster and a joke. 

Not to mention all the off the field bs from John A. I hope he gets his money and is never heard from again, in relation to this franchise. 

[SemperFi]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

You seem to think things can run on auto pilot if key people leave.   I don’t agree.  Elias mentioned having a previous connection to Koby Perez and that’s how he got here when asked about how he filled spots when he got the job.  

We have no idea how good or bad Eve Rosenbaum would be.

 

Koby and ME were both scouts with St Louis.  I believe Koby while not hired by ME but may have worked with him then for him circa '08.  

I get the feeling from what we know about job responsibilty and past experience while Sig and Eve have the title Asst GM it's not in the traditional sense.  

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, SemperFi said:

I get the feeling from what we know about job responsibilty and past experience while Sig and Eve have the title Asst GM it's not in the traditional sense.  

I’m not sure what this means.  What do you think a “traditional” Asst. GM does?

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Fujinami and Flaherty were late season pickups for a stretch drive to the pennant.  They really didn't have much of anything to do with spending money. 

If anything, Elias' inability to let go of good prospects to pick up a quality starter is how we wound up with Flaherty.  I don't think it had anything to do with Angelos not wanting to spend money for two months to secure a pennant and increase World Series chances.

And no, not "literally everything" he did once the team got good was to stand in the way of success.  That's just hyperbole.  I will agree that he doesn't want to spend money but that's about it.  Other than that, he's allowed Elias to do whatever he wants and the returns have been great.  

I guess we can agree to disagree on that point. IMO they represented the SAME kind of acquisitions that we made during last offseason (the likes of the Kyle Gibson's of the world). They are made with the primary motivation being finance driven and NOT winning. They are mediocre players at best who serve as roster filler/fodder, which is fine when you are rebuilding/tanking/intentionally losing for draft status/don't really want to win at the Big League level because you don't have all the organizational pieces in place, or whatever we want to call in. BUT when you are one of the best teams in the league and have not spent ANY MONEY in years, IMO it's horrid that you would continue to operate that way and bypass LEGIT shots to try and win it all in order to save a few bucks.

I believe that Elias is a competitor (like almost all people in his position within the game) and no one can argue that he is very competent when it comes to eyeing talent. I also believe that John Angelos' primary motivation/concern was to make/stash as much money from the team as he possibly could WHILE spending as little as he could.

When you add those 2 things together (which seem very plausible to me) I think I am drawing a reasonable conclusion that John Angelos was a very serious impediment/obstacle to Elias, rather than any kind of supportive ally/asset.

When it comes time, all good executives need their owner/boss to loosen the purse strings and given them the financial support necessary so that they can make moves to help supplement the team and hopefully put them over the top. 

I didn't have that much critique of John Angelos before 2023 just questions, curiosities, a few concerns, and some hopes. But in 2023 (starting with the offseason and continuing throughout the season) it became quite clear to me that he had little to no interest in the Orioles ever becoming champions. I don't want to ever feel like as a fan that I want the team to win/succeed more than the owner/leader of the organization. To me he felt almost agnostic in regards to the team winning a World Series.

[Bemorewins]

2 hours ago, Number5 said:

20th is middle 10.  Just sayin'.  

Yes, my mistake. I should have said 21. But either way we were bottom TWO. Only the Oakland/soon to be Vegas A's spent less than us. And in some cases it is embarrassing to think rebuilding teams like the Detroit Tigers, Kansas City Royals, Pittsburgh Pirates, etc were out spending us (when we had a team as good as it was this past season).

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, TradeAngelos said:

My confidence in John Angelos being able to close a multi billion dollar deal without screwing it up in some way shape or form is basically zero. Can't even get a lease signed, but is going to go through the process of the sale without messing it up? Wake me up when it is done I'll be the first in line to buy tickets. Until then it is just another rumor. 

Guess you'll have to change your handle if it happens!

[interloper]

1 hour ago, TradeAngelos said:

My confidence in John Angelos being able to close a multi billion dollar deal without screwing it up in some way shape or form is basically zero. Can't even get a lease signed, but is going to go through the process of the sale without messing it up? Wake me up when it is done I'll be the first in line to buy tickets. Until then it is just another rumor. 

This is completely 100% where I'm at with this. 

[SemperFi]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not sure what this means.  What do you think a “traditional” Asst. GM does?

Just my opinion but going back say 20 years an asst GM shadowed the GM and had a breath of responsibility not narrow.  When I see them (until research), I saw them as silozed (analytics and scouting).  Very different than the path a Doug Melvin took (scouting, asst to the GM then Asst GM).

Sig has never done anything (I know about) outside analytics and while that may qualify him as "consigliere" there's an awful lot more to the job.  I don't think Boston had any interest in him other than to pick his brain.

Here is where I was wrong-Eve had been all scouting but last year when she was promoted she assumed what I would consider a "traditional role"

". Rosenbaum will oversee roster management, transactions, financial planning and major league operations and administration. She will also continue to play a role in player evaluation and acquisition."

IMO Sig seems to be seen as ME's "right hand man" but I don't think Eve gets enough credit.

[Aristotelian]

I agree John gets credit for hiring Elias and staying out of the baseball operations. The one issue though he he has been way more extreme in the cost cutting. Not only the player payroll but things like getting rid of Gary Thorne etc. We don't know exactly what kind of constraints Elias was operating under and how much was self imposed, but it is possible that with more latitude to spend we could have gone further in the playoffs or even won the WS. A lot of us wanted Eovaldi, for example, and who knows what would have happened if we would have gotten him instead of Gibson. 

At the same time, under Peter we regularly ran above average payrolls, even if the money was not well (in some cases, terribly) spent. 

[One eyed Bird]

4 hours ago, UMDTerrapins said:

The only thing worthy of latching onto here is that there seems to be credible evidence of what we suspected….that the team is in fact for sale. When something like this leaks you have to question who would leak it and why. These kinds of negotiations remain invisible until someone sees a benefit to making it public. It’s hard to imagine any upside for Rubenstein leaking, so I’m assuming it’s either Angelos or someone who was looking for a scoop. If it’s Angelos, it would probably be an effort to motivate other prospective buyers, as well as Rubenstein, to step up with offers. And if it is Angelos doing the leaking, I doubt it implies we’re anywhere remotely close to an actual agreement. So, I’m not getting excited, but just hearing that we’re legitimately for sale and will be rescued from captivity from the Angelose family is an incredibly happy thing for me.  

So you are not excited just incredibly happy, got it

[interloper]

The Banner weighs in:

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/sports/orioles-mlb/orioles-sale-bloomberg-report-angelos-family-OULIMYHYU5HN3HOLIFYYTAFXGI/

The article cites 4 reasons that it might not make sense to sell right now. The development rights, the MASN issue, the fact that Angelos would be cashing out on a bright team of young stars that he ushered in with Elias, and the capital gains tax issue. 

I don't doubt the rumor is true, but I do doubt anything is remotely close, or that Angelos is even fielding offers in any serious way right now. It's like Elias "having interest" in Hader. Meaningless.