Breaking down Holliday’s swing

[Jagwar]

Am I the only one who thinks he "steps in the bucket" a little and could be vulnerable to outside heat?

[Sanity Check]

40 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Am I the only one who thinks he "steps in the bucket" a little and could be vulnerable to outside heat?

I'm going to go with "Yes" 

 

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, Jagwar said:

Am I the only one who thinks he "steps in the bucket" a little and could be vulnerable to outside heat?

Thats on purpose to open up his hips.  The swing plane covers the entire plate and is very much geared to CF/LCF.  He hasn’t hit full strength yet, but if you watch his highlights he hit some monster HR to straight away LF.  Not a lot of holes in the swing.  

Edited January 3 by emmett16

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Oh, I don’t doubt it either.   I just think there are game situations that are tough to replicate in any practice session.  You can take grounders all day, but the sense of trying to get to a ball and beat a runner with 3.9 or 4.0 speed to 1B, or coordinate with another middle infielder to turn a tight DP with a runner bearing down on 2B at game speed, is challenging to replicate in a practice session.  Hitting is easier.  

Now, I did appreciate @emmett16’s explanation of some of the technologies available now to replicate different types of grounders and batted balls.  
 

I’ve been looking around for video.  Ron Washington is the IF coach, you can find some stuff he does on YouTube and the Socials.  Now that you are retired, head over to UMD and watch how they do their defense practice with the set up I mentioned.  2 jugs + fungo and coach with a stopwatch.  It’s impressive. 

[Just Regular]

Featuring Adrian Gonzalez's about to be 1-and-done Hall candidacy, MLB just threw up a graphic of WAR leaders among 1-1's - they go:

A-Rod 117, Chipper 85, Griffey 83, Mauer 55, Bryce 46, A. Gonzalez 43

The Hit tool reports are so off the charts I do have hopes Holliday's arc might resemble Chipper's.     The beautiful thing in Chipper's readouts is he was 20-for-20 at OPS+ in triple digits.

It was "just" 108 his rookie year, and then never lower than 116 the other 19 seasons.

I still feel in the dark whether 4-8 years out Holliday keeps a middle infielder's body, or grows into more of a corner power house.      He seems about as high a 3000 hits probability challenger as there could be should health bless him with 10000 PA.

Hopefully Adley in time can represent for College Guys on that leaderboard, but it isn't that surprising high schoolers have the lion's share.   

[RZNJ]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:36 PM, emmett16 said:

Thats on purpose to open up his hips.  The swing plane covers the entire plate and is very much geared to CF/LCF.  He hasn’t hit full strength yet, but if you watch his highlights he hit some monster HR to straight away LF.  Not a lot of holes in the swing.  

Makes sense but I can’t think of many, if any, ML hitters who step like that with their lead foot.  It doesn’t look good to me but who can argue with the results?

[btdart20]

29 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Featuring Adrian Gonzalez's about to be 1-and-done Hall candidacy, MLB just threw up a graphic of WAR leaders among 1-1's - they go:

A-Rod 117, Chipper 85, Griffey 83, Mauer 55, Bryce 46, A. Gonzalez 43

The Hit tool reports are so off the charts I do have hopes Holliday's arc might resemble Chipper's.     The beautiful thing in Chipper's readouts is he was 20-for-20 at OPS+ in triple digits.

It was "just" 108 his rookie year, and then never lower than 116 the other 19 seasons.

I still feel in the dark whether 4-8 years out Holliday keeps a middle infielder's body, or grows into more of a corner power house.      He seems about as high a 3000 hits probability challenger as there could be should health bless him with 10000 PA.

Hopefully Adley in time can represent for College Guys on that leaderboard, but it isn't that surprising high schoolers have the lion's share.   

IIRC, Chipper had a pretty high floor defensively coming into the league.  To put it another way, Holliday has more questions about his defense.  I do think Holliday's hit tool is about as polished as any HS can be.  Which makes me think Matt Holliday's influence can't be understated.  Which also makes me agree with being in the dark about his drive for bulk/power.  I'd love to see him fit up the middle (2B/SS) maintaining defensive range/flexibility even if it costs a few SLG bits.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

IIRC, Chipper had a pretty high floor defensively coming into the league.  To put it another way, Holliday has more questions about his defense.  I do think Holliday's hit tool is about as polished as any HS can be.  Which makes me think Matt Holliday's influence can't be understated.  Which also makes me agree with being in the dark about his drive for bulk/power.  I'd love to see him fit up the middle (2B/SS) maintaining defensive range/flexibility even if it costs a few SLG bits.

I think you’re wrong.  Chipper Jones was a SS in the minors and wound up playing almost exclusively 3B and the OF in the majors.  He also had a .931 fielding pct. In 129 games in AAA at SS.   I think the defensive floor is higher on Holliday as most see him as a true SS who might move to another position only because team dynamics.

[btdart20]

58 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Makes sense but I can’t think of many, if any, ML hitters who step like that with their lead foot.  It doesn’t look good to me but who can argue with the results?

I do see the different front foot/leg snap you seem to be referencing.  I don't see that as 'stepping in the bucket' or anything that breaks the kinetic chain.  I see it as helping with delay/speed and jump start the kinetic chain.  

 

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

I do see the different front foot/leg snap you seem to be referencing.  I don't see that as 'stepping in the bucket' or anything that breaks the kinetic chain.  I see it as helping with delay/speed and jump start the kinetic chain.  

 

Kinetic chain?  Really?

I had physics in HS so I get it.  Haha.

 

[btdart20]

26 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Kinetic chain?  Really?

I had physics in HS so I get it.  Haha.

 

Should I have said "sequence of actions that allows the energy/strength to flow into the next step of the swing" instead?  Feels a little wordy, no?

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

Should I have said "sequence of actions that allows the energy/strength to flow into the next step of the swing" instead?  Feels a little wordy, no?

Don't all hitters start a kinetic chain?   Good or bad mechanics is still a kinetic chain.  You're saying his hitting mechanics are sound.  No problem.   I can find video where the front foot towards 1B is much more pronounced.  Again, the results are great.  Just don't see many hitters like that.

[emmett16]

16 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Don't all hitters start a kinetic chain?   Good or bad mechanics is still a kinetic chain.  You're saying his hitting mechanics are sound.  No problem.   I can find video where the front foot towards 1B is much more pronounced.  Again, the results are great.  Just don't see many hitters like that.

Not if hands move first.  Kinetic chain breaks down.  The Elites have hands go back as front foot goes forward like winding up a spring.  Then foot, hip, shoulder, hand,

[RZNJ]

5 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Not if hands move first.  Kinetic chain breaks down.  The Elites have hands go back as front foot goes forward like winding up a spring.  Then foot, hip, shoulder, hand,

So, all hitting coaches would teach this and I would assume most  ML hitters do this.

[emmett16]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Makes sense but I can’t think of many, if any, ML hitters who step like that with their lead foot.  It doesn’t look good to me but who can argue with the results?

I’ve seen what you’re talking about.  I think the reason you don’t see it much is because he’s an elite hitter and doing it on purpose as opposed to someone “stepping in the bucket” and flying open while whiffing on the outside.   He’s opening up his hips a bit to protect against the inside fastball since  he’s geared up for and  looking to drive the ball up the middle & away.