Trade Package Anxiety

[RZNJ]

IF we make a trade for Cease, Luzardo, whoever, there are certain names I don’t want to see in the package so I hope the package includes some of these players and not others.

Cowser

Ortiz

Norby

Povich

DeLeon

Why those players and not others?   I know there has to be a headliner and I have just enough doubts about Cowser while I think Westburg and Kjerstad have higher floors with just as much upside.  Of course, it would really hurt to lose any of the big three.   
 

As for Ortiz and Norby, I don’t see them getting spots going forward.  As many times as I play around with different lineups I can’t convince myself that the Orioles will move Gunnar off of SS for anyone including Ortiz.   It might happen but seeing is believing.   I think the future infield includes Gunnar at SS and Holliday at 2B with either Westburg or Mayo at 3B.   Norby has almost zero chance to be the Orioles 2B at any point but he has more value there than as a LF.   Hopefully, another team gives him that opportunity.   Same with Ortiz at SS.

I hope we don’t have to give up any young pitching in a trade but if it comes down to it this is why I chose Povich and DeLeon.   I really like McDermott and Seth Johnson.   Both have floors of power relievers and the upside of starter.   Even though Povich has great K numbers and his stuff is, apparently, rated really good I just don’t get the wow factor I get with the other two.  As for DeLeon apparently he’s come up in trade talks before so he could go.   He could turn out to be the best of them BUT …..  he hasn’t come close to putting any serious amount of innings together and I just have this anxiety about his durability.   I believe he missed time in 2022 and he had an interesting time in Delmarva.  He dominated his second start with 5 IP and 8 K’s and never went 5 again.  In fact, he only went 4 once and his last two appearances were like he wore down.  I imagine he might have the highest ceiling of our starter prospects but he’s got a long way to go and for some reason I’m not attached to him yet.

If we have to include a lottery ticket then I’d have to pick Sosa as the one to go over players like Tavera, Liranzo, Arias, or Almeyda.   Can’t really explain it but I think he’s the furthest down the defensive spectrum.   
 

It wouldn’t kill me to see Beavers, Wagner, Fabian go in a trade.   My enthusiasm for Beavers has waned a little bit.  

I’m not predicting which prospects turn out better.  This is more of an attachment to certain prospects based on what I’ve seen and we know we shouldn’t trust the eye test too much.  
 

Anyway, we’ve probably had a thread like this before and this one is probably kind of boring but just felt like typing a few thoughts out.  I’d like to see a trade happen but at the same time I’m anxious about what we wind up giving up to make it happen.

[Otter]

Outside of our big 3, I don't have any real anxiety about trading any of our other prospects (depending on the return of course).  That being said, I'd really prefer not to trade any of our higher level pitching prospects (Povich, McDermott) because of our lack of depth in that area.  The whole reason we're looking to trade for a starting pitcher is because of the lack of depth in that area, and if we're trading pitching prospects to acquire a pitcher we're essentially perpetuating the problem.

[joelala]

I don’t think we make any significant trades in the next few weeks so I wouldn’t worry about it. 

[Moose Milligan]

I have no anxiety.  

[Guest]

We’re gonna sign Michael Lorenzen and lose 28 year old Connor Norby to rule 5

[Hazmat]

Bobby Grich's days as an Oriole were before my time but I hate the idea of trading Jordan Westburg.  I can see him being a very good player for a long time and would be sick to my stomach to see him go.  I could see how it would be rational to do so, however.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Hazmat said:

Bobby Grich's days as an Oriole were before my time but I hate the idea of trading Jordan Westburg.  I can see him being a very good player for a long time and would be sick to my stomach to see him go.  I could see how it would be rational to do so, however.

What does Bobby Grich have to do with anything?

Grich is a HoF snub that left the O's due to free agency.

Are you suggesting that Westburg is going to have a borderline HoF level career?

[interloper]

16 minutes ago, joelala said:

I don’t think we make any significant trades in the next few weeks so I wouldn’t worry about it. 

Bingo. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What does Bobby Grich have to do with anything?

Grich is a HoF snub that left the O's due to free agency.

Are you suggesting that Westburg is going to have a borderline HoF level career?

I think Westburg could be somewhere between Schoop and BRob in terms over overall impact, in a best case scenario.   That’s very good, but it’s not Grich. 

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What does Bobby Grich have to do with anything?

Grich is a HoF snub that left the O's due to free agency.

Are you suggesting that Westburg is going to have a borderline HoF level career?

Geez, give the guy a break.  He said right in his post that he sees him being a very good player for a long time.   God forgive him for mentioning a very good Orioles 2B from the past.

[interloper]

I think we've learned a few things this offseason:

1. Teams don't want our prospects unless they are Holliday, Basallo, Mayo, Kjerstad, Cowser, or Westburg.

2. Elias doesn't want to trade any of those listed in #1.

And then a couple things we already know:

1. The best prospects Elias has traded are Darell Hernaiz, Cesar Prieto, Zack Showalter, and Drew Rom. The result of all of that is still just Cole Irvin, basically. 

2. Elias has so far had much more success trading our boy Cash Considerations for guys like Coulombe and O'Hearn. 

 

Doesn't mean this can't all change at any moment, but so far the track record indicates Elias is only willing to trade from the very bottom of the depth pile for middling return. 

Edited January 25 by interloper

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Geez, give the guy a break.  He said right in his post that he sees him being a very good player for a long time.   God forgive him for mentioning a very good Orioles 2B from the past.

Why pick a guy that they never saw play and should be in the Hall of Fame?

Frobby listed two guys off the top of his head that qualify and aren't huge reaches.

I never say Del Pratt play but I'd hate to see Westburg get traded!

Is anyone else still sore he went to the Yankees in '18?

Edited January 25 by Can_of_corn

[RVAOsFan]

I think Norby is going to hit well enough in the majors that a team will find a spot in the lineup for him.  Have my doubts that happens here but I hope it does.

[Hazmat]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why pick a guy that they never saw play and should be in the Hall of Fame?

Frobby listed two guys off the top of his head that qualify and aren't huge reaches.

I never say Del Pratt play but I'd hate to see Westburg get traded!

Fine.  Pick any other player that blossomed after they left or were traded by the Orioles.  Would Steve Finley be a better player to pick?  I'm sure you'd find fault with that one as well.  My point is that it would suck to see Westburg be a very good player for another team for the next 10 years.  Just my gut feeling.  Like I said, I would understand him being included in a trade.  I just wouldn't like it.

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why pick a guy that they never saw play and should be in the Hall of Fame?

Frobby listed two guys off the top of his head that qualify and aren't huge reaches.

I never say Del Pratt play but I'd hate to see Westburg get traded!

Is anyone else still sore he went to the Yankees in '18?

Is Frobby suggesting Westburg might steal 50 bases like BRob?   OMG!   How can you compare two totally different types of players?   Oh, what blasphemy!   See, I can be silly too.