Trade Package Anxiety

[Malike]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Right, agreed. 

I do agree they would benefit greatly from another back-end RP.

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

I do agree they would benefit greatly from another back-end RP.

I would take someone kind of boring and solid like Ottavino just to gel everything together a bit. That would push out Tate because Irvin is out of options (I think?), but Tate does have an option. Baumann and Webb would need to be traded or DFA'd.

1. Kimbrel
2. Cano
3. Coulombe
4. Ottavino
5. Perez
6. Hall
7. Wells
8. Irvin

That's a very solid bullpen on paper.

Edited January 25 by interloper

[foxfield]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you think he's more likely to hit 70 WAR?

No but I think you would pull this post and say see I told you so if he had a 17 year career with 69.9WAR.

[doccat]

My untouchable list:

 

Holliday, Basallo, Mayo, Kjerstad.

 

My not quite untouchable list:

Cowser, Ortiz, Norby, Westburg

My prefer to trade list:

Urias, Stowers, Beavers, Fabian

 

I know demand for the last group is pretty minimal but I'd hope to package 1-2 of those guys in with 1-2 of the second list...

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, foxfield said:

No but I think you would pull this post and say see I told you so if he had a 17 year career with 69.9WAR.

I can see where you would think that but I don't follow a bunch of threads to post about them later.

Just more effort than I'm willing to expend.

It's get me called out on occasion when I can't find stuff I "remember" seeing. 

[jabba72]

I wouldn't be eager to move Deleon in a trade until we figure out what they've got there. Cowser (lets face it the O's have alot of OF prospect depth and Cowser didn't look like a CF in his mlb time) and Ortiz should be enough back to bring a #2.  Those two have potential to be solid everyday players. Maybe not stars, but 2nd division starters at least. 

 

[RZNJ]

16 minutes ago, interloper said:

I would take someone kind of boring and solid like Ottavino just to gel everything together a bit. That would push out Tate because Irvin is out of options (I think?), but Tate does have an option. Baumann and Webb would need to be traded or DFA'd.

1. Kimbrel
2. Cano
3. Coulombe
4. Ottavino
5. Perez
6. Hall
7. Wells
8. Irvin

That's a very solid bullpen on paper.

Do you have Wells and Hall at 6 and 7 because you think they are going to be used like long men or 2-3 inning relievers?   If so, I think you’re way off.  They are going to be 1 inning guys used from the 7th inning on mostly.

[interloper]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Do you have Wells and Hall at 6 and 7 because you think they are going to be used like long men or 2-3 inning relievers?   If so, I think you’re way off.  They are going to be 1 inning guys used from the 7th inning on mostly.

No, not really, I was mainly just numbering to make sure I had 8 haha. Once I got past Coulombe, everyone is kind of the same until you get to Irvin. I agree, Wells and Hall will be high leverage guys. Irvin I have as the long guy right now. 

[Malike]

I get that Cowser looked bad for all of 61AB in 2023, but the dude had a .937 OPS and slugged .520 with an OBP of .417 at 23 years old. He gets an awful lot of shade on the Hangout. I think he's going to be an above-average ML player both with the bat and glove and I was as hard on him as anyone while he was on the big team.

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Malike said:

I get that Cowser looked bad for all of 61AB in 2023, but the dude had a .937 OPS and slugged .520 with an OBP of .417 at 23 years old. He gets an awful lot of shade on the Hangout. I think he's going to be an above-average ML player both with the bat and glove and I was as hard on him as anyone while he was on the big team.

Could be but Jared Kelenic can probably tell you great minor league stats even at 21-22 don’t automatically make you an above average ML player.   He’s got the swing and miss and he looked really tentative in a SSS.  BA pointed out his metrics among a handful of rookies who show good traits to succeed at the ML level.   So there’s that.

[jabba72]

38 minutes ago, Malike said:

I get that Cowser looked bad for all of 61AB in 2023, but the dude had a .937 OPS and slugged .520 with an OBP of .417 at 23 years old. He gets an awful lot of shade on the Hangout. I think he's going to be an above-average ML player both with the bat and glove and I was as hard on him as anyone while he was on the big team.

Cowser would be alot more highly regarded if the O's didnt have Mayo, Kjerstad, Bradfield and talk of moving Norby to LF. At some point you have to move on from someone, now odds are not all will make it, so you kind of have to defer to the scouts to guess who those might be.  I dont have a strong preference between Cowser and Kjerstad. Mayo is ahead of both and also possibly heading to the OF.

[InsideCoroner]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

I do agree they would benefit greatly from another back-end RP.

I certainly hope so. I expect regression from Cano, and I don’t think you can fully count on guys like Coulombe to repeat their sudden success (see: Cionel Perez). 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Malike said:

We can't even act like Bautista was a sure thing to replicate 2023. 

Nor can we act like Cano is guaranteed to replicate 2023. Nor Coulombe. Regression risk underscores the possible need. Between Baumann, Baker, and Webb I think there are plenty of spots to upgrade if Wells is in the rotation.

1 hour ago, interloper said:

If the team really had interest in fully replacing Bautista, they would have signed Hader. We're not replacing Bautista. We're going to hope for improvement in the SP and the offense. And we'll have a good bullpen that is likely to be slightly worse than last year's.

That said - there's some room for possible improvement from someone like Perez. You add Tate, who you hope is solid. You have Hall for more of the year who you hope is back to his full velocity now. I get that none of that is a sure thing, but, that's what we're rolling with. I don't see any other high leverage arms being added before the season. Deadline maybe. 

I am not talking about paying big money for a guy like Hader. I was thinking more along the lines of a trade for someone who would slot in behind Cano and Kimbrel. Not sure who that would be but I thought the Tanner Scott idea was interesting. Maybe the Guardians have someone available.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Nor can we act like Cano is guaranteed to replicate 2023. Nor Coulombe. Regression risk underscores the possible need. Between Baumann, Baker, and Webb I think there are plenty of spots to upgrade if Wells is in the rotation.

I am not talking about paying big money for a guy like Hader. I was thinking more along the lines of a trade for someone who would slot in behind Cano and Kimbrel. Not sure who that would be but I thought the Tanner Scott idea was interesting. Maybe the Guardians have someone available.

You’re worried about all these guys regressing.  What about the guy you acquire?   I happen to be a big Tanner Scott fan now.   I felt good for him that he was able to figure things out last year but he’s probably the kind of guy the Marlins keep to try and make a run and trade at the deadline if they don’t.

If Wells and Hall are in the bullpen I think we’re good there.   Is Ottavino or Brasier at 7-8M a significant upgrade over Jacob Webb and is it worth the cost.  Idk

[Malike]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

You’re worried about all these guys regressing.  What about the guy you acquire?   I happen to be a big Tanner Scott fan now.   I felt good for him that he was able to figure things out last year but he’s probably the kind of guy the Marlins keep to try and make a run and trade at the deadline if they don’t.

If Wells and Hall are in the bullpen I think we’re good there.   Is Ottavino or Brasier at 7-8M a significant upgrade over Jacob Webb and is it worth the cost.  Idk

Let's not forget the guys who were mediocre who might improve. There are too many variables to say that the "studs" from last year might regress, there also might be improvement from others.